Q. Where was it held?-A. I think it was held at the Parker House. Q. Who of the State central committee attended it?—A. I think Mr. Thayer was present.

Q. Can you tell us the names of any gentlemen who ordered it to be held?-A. I was not present.

Q. Did you never see any circulars containing the names of gentlemen who were present and inviting others to be present?-A. I saw a list once, but did not give it any attention.

Q. Can you give me the names of any gentlemen who were upon that list?-A. I cannot. I have beard that Edward Atkinson was there. Q. Was Mr. George Crompton there?-A. I do not know.

Q. Can you give the time at which that meeting was called?—A. I

cannot.

Q. Do you know what the purpose of it was?-A. It was a conference in regard to the campaign.

Q. Were any of the gentlemen who were invited to meet at the Parker House members of the Republican State committee?-A. I do not know. Q. It was known as a manufacturers' meeting, was it not?-A. Yes; it was given that name.

Q. Was there more than one such meeting?-A. I never heard of but

one.

Q. Did you ever hear of any in the other portions of the State?—A. No.

Q. Was not money raised, of your knowledge, as the result of that meeting-A. I never heard of it.

Q. There might have been meetings of manufacturers in other sections of the State and you not have heard of them ?—A. O, of course. Q. Was Mr. Thayer continually present at the headquarters, or was he traveling about the State occasionally during the campaign?-A. I did not hear of his traveling about the State. I was not at the headquarters all the time.

Q. He resided then at Worcester -A. He resided then at Worcester, but he was at the headquarters most of the time.

Q. Is it or not a matter of general notoriety among citizens of the State (for that is what you have been giving in regard to other subjects here) that money is potential in elections in the State of Massachusetts?

Mr. PLATT, by way of objection, stated that he had studiously avoided statements upon general rumor; that testimony of the character called for by the question was of the loosest kind, of no practical value, and could have only the effect of prolonging the investigation.

The CHAIRMAN. It is of the character of that which has been given by the witness.

[The question was not pressed.]

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Is money used by the political organizations or by candidates for the purpose of paying poll-taxes of voters which are necessary to be paid in order to have them assessed on the registry?—A. Yes.

Q. What is the amount of that tax?-A. Two dollars. A payment of two dollars suffices for two years' voting.

Q. Do you know of the use of money collected from Federal office-holders, or others in Federal employ, and used in the elections of 1876 or 1878-A. I do not.

Q. You think that whisky has a great deal to do with bribing voters in Boston?-A. I do.

Q. Do you think that that is the only influence in that direction that is made use of in Boston ?-A. No.

Q. What other influence is made use of ?—A. Influences that are common everywhere.

Q. You have said that whisky was one. Give any other.

Senator McDONALD. Moral suasion.

The WITNESs. There is moral suasion, as the Senator says.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) By whom is that exercised?-A. Both parties use moral suasion.

Q. I understand that. But to what classes did you appeal, in the use of moral suasion, during the campaign of 1878-A. We appealed to all classes.

Q. Including clergymen ?-A. Including clergymen.

Q. What other influences were used?-A. All sorts of arguments, I suppose. All sorts of promises.

Q. Any performance?-A. More or less performance, I should say. Many of the promises that were made in the last campaign, I understand, have been broken.

Q. The point of my first inquiry was not with reference to what is being done here particularly, but with reference to the effect of this registry tax. Is it or not your judgment that the payment of the two dollars as a registry tax is a fruitful source of corruption or bribery in elections in Massachusetts ?-A. I think it has resulted very frequently in bribery and corruption. I think that bribery and corruption can be prevented by more carefully-prepared laws, but I would not have the Federal election laws done away with.

Q. You think, then, that it leads to corruption and bribery?—A. I think that the bribery and corruption may be done away with; that the law has not been carefully guarded.

Q. Do you know of any meetings of gentlemen connected with the Republican campaign as managers, in 1878, with reference to the influence of the custom-house on the Federal election in the State in 1878A. No, sir.

Q. Have you heard of no meetings of that kind ?-A. No.

Q. Has there been no conference between the Republican officials and the custom-house officials with reference to the influence of the patronage of that custom-house in recent elections?-A. Not I that know of. By Mr. PLATT:

66

Q. The circular of which you have spoken as having first come to your knowledge when made use of by Mr. Butler at Faneuil Hall, starts off with the statement to the person to whom it is addressed, that "your co-operation with the Massachusetts Republican State Central Committee is most earnestly requested." It concludes with the statement that a thorough canvass of those you employ, and an early report to the secretary of the Republican State Central Committee, will be thankfully received." I understand you to say that that was not issued by nor at the instance of the Republican State Central Committee?-A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you any knowledge that it was issued with the knowledge of any Republican, or printed by any Republican?

Mr. McDONALD. Is the suspicion or belief of the witness any better than would be that of anybody else?

Mr. PLATT. If he has the least suspicion that it was printed or issued by any Republican, I would like to have him state it. I would like to have any intimation that he has received on that subject.

Mr. MCDONALD. His knowledge I do not object to; his suspicion I do object to.

Q. (By Mr. PLATT.) Then give us your knowledge.-A. I have no knowledge.

Q. Is there any circumstance within your knowledge that leads you to the belief that it was issued by any Republican printer?-A. No, sir. By Mr. McDonald:

Q. Do you know George Crompton?-A. I know of or have heard of him.

Q. Do you know generally what his business is ?-A. I do not.

Q. Is he connected with any manufacturing establishment?-A. I do not know that.

Q. Do you know Philip L. Moen?-A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know E. W. Vaill?-A. No.

Q. Do you know Joseph H. Walker?-A. Yes.

Q. Is he connected with any manufacturing establishment?—A. I do not know.

Q. Do you know Charles E. Whiting, of Whitinsville?—A. I do not. I have heard of him.

Q. As one connected with manufacturing in that place?—A. I suppose so. That is my impression.

Q. Do you know John D. Washburne ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was his connection with the Republican party in the last campaign?-A. He was one of the workers in the Republican party. He was chairman of the Worcester City (or county) committee, I think. Q. What is the situation of Worcester from Boston ?-A. It is west, nearer the center of the State.

Q. He was an active Republican politician in the last canvass, was he? A. Yes.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Do you know what the politics of the Boston Herald are? Who did it support in the last contest for governor ?—A. It supported the Republican candidate, Governor Talbot.

Q. Did you see the article I now show you, as an editorial in that paper -A. (After examining a newspaper cutting, which is hereinafter given in the testimony of Eli Thayer.) I think I have seen that, but do not remember where I saw it. There are some phrases there that sound to me as if I had read them before.

Q. Is the circulation of the Boston Herald a pretty wide one-larger than that of any other newspaper in the State?-A. It is larger than that of any other newspaper in the State, I understand.

Q. Did it support both of the Republican candidates for Congress in the city, last fall?-A. No; my impression is that it supported Morse. Q. Did it support Dean?-A. I think not.

Q. Dean was beaten, was he?-A. Yes.

Q. (By Mr. BLAIR.) The Boston Herald supported Mr. Morse, the Democratic candidate for Congressman, last autumn, did it not?-A. Yes; I think so.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) It supported Talbot ?-A. Yes.

Q. Talbot was elected?-A. Yes.

Q. (By Mr. PLATT.) As I understand it, the Herald does not profess to be, and is not esteemed to be, an organ of the Republican party?— A. No; it was a Democratic organ and apparently could not go with the party.

ADIN THAYER sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Where do you reside ?-Answer. In Worcester.

Q. Were you the chairman of the State central committee of Massachusetts in 1878-A. I was. I am not now.

Q. Were you present at a meeting at the Parker House during the canvass in the fall of that year?-A. Yes, sir; at several.

Q. Were you present at one at which a number of manufacturers were convened?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you give us the names of the persons who were there?-A. I cannot.

Q. Can you give the names of any of them?—A. I could give a few, not very many. I think that the gentlemen who were there were Mr. E. R. Mudge; Mr. Henry P. Kidder (of Kidder, Peabody & Co.); Mr. Henry L. Pierce, the mayor of the city; Mr. Charles Harding; Dr. Davis, of Fall River; Mr. George Marston, the candidate for attorneygeneral; and Senator George F. Hoar-he went with me, at the same time that I went there. I do not recall any other names at this time. Q. Was Philip L. Moen there?-A. I should think that Mr. Moen was not there.

Q. E. W. Vaill?-A. I think not.

Q. Joseph H. Walker -A. He was not there.

Q. Mr. Charles E. Whiting?—A. I think he was not, but I would not be positive.

Q. George Crompton?-A. He was not there.

Q. John D. Washburne ?-A. He was not there.

Q. What was that meeting convened for? Give me the purposes of it.-A. It was convened, like a hundred others during the campaign, for consultation and advice.

Q. Were these gentlemen members of the committee?-A. No, sir; but very few of them. I do not know in fact that one of them was, except Dr. Davis, who acted upon the committee to fill a vacancy from Fall River. I do not remember any others of those who were there who were members of the State central committee.

Q. What, then, was the purpose and the business transacted?—A. It was a meeting, as I have said, for consultation and to stir up enthusiasm, if we could, to get everybody at work. I made a few remarks, and Senator Hoar made a short speech.

Q. What was the subject of consultation or discussion-money or votes?-A. No, sir; we were not in want of money at that time; we wanted to stir the people up to the importance of the issue.

Q. Give me the date of the meeting.-A. I have no recollection of the date.

Q. In what month was it?—A. It must have been in October; late in the month, I think.

Q. Was any action taken at that meeting in reference to the raising of funds?-A. None whatever.

Q. Was any action taken at that meeting in regard to arousing the employers of labor?-A No, sir; not specially.

Q. What was said on that subject?—A. I can give you what I said. I did not have any set speech, still it was substantially what I said at twenty, perhaps fifty, other meetings, and I can give substantially what I said. I do not think I can give Senator Hoar's speech, but he is in town to-day, and I presume would be very happy to give it if the committee desire to hear it.

Q. We do not want speeches, but simply the purpose of the meeting.A. I took charge of the meeting as chairman of the State central committee, and said to the gertlemen present that this was an anomalous campaign; that it was not in any just sense a political campaign; that men of both parties were interested in opposing Butler; that it could hardly be called a political campaign; that one of the most dangerous and unscrupulous demagogues of modern times, backed by Dennis Kearney and the communists, was trying to seize hold of and capture Massachusetts; and that all classes of the community, both Democrats and Republicans, everybody who had an interest in the good name of Massachusetts, ought to be content and willing to do something in the campaign. I said to them that I was giving my whole time without compensation, and that I felt that they ought to devote some time to it, and money, if necessary; that all of them had sources of influence; that every man had his own way of making his influence felt in the community; and that I thought we had a right to call upon them to do their utmost, give their time and, if necessary, their means toward defeating this dangerous combination of demagogues and communists.

Q. You have not yet reached the point. Did you ask them to influ ence or control the men in their employ?—A. No, sir.

Q. Was any proposition of that kind mooted at that meeting?—A. None whatever; not the slightest allusion to it.

Q. Who were these gentlemen; were they employers of labor ?—A. Some of them were; but not one-half of them. They were men whose Dames occurred to me in connection with the names of men of standing, as I was writing to such men, to meet at headquarters, as it was my business to stir up the people of Massachusetts.

Q. In what business was Mr. Mudge engaged?—A. Mr. Mudge is a proprietor of mills, I think.

Q. Where?-A. At Lawrence.

Q. How many men does he employ?-A. I have not the remotest idea.

Q. In what business is Mr. Kidder employed?—A. He is a banker. Q. Is he interested in any large manufacturing establishment?-A. I think he has no such interest whatever.

Q. What as to Mr. Pierce?-A. He was mayor of the city. He was formerly a member of Congress.

Q. What is his business?-A. He makes chocolate.

Q. Is be an employer of men ?-A. Other gentlemen here know better than I. I think he has very few men.

Q. Charles L. Harding?-A. He is interested in mills somewhere. He has some interest in the Lawrence Mills. I invited him because I had known him from boyhood.

Q. Do you know whether he is connected with mills at Dedham ?-A. I do not. He has an office in Boston here somewhere.

Q. Is Dr. Davis a physician by profession ?—A. He is a leading physician of Fall River.

Q. Is he, to your knowledge, connected with or a stockholder in any of the mills there?-A. I do not know.

Q. Were any contracts or specific propositions made in reference to the future conduct of the campaign?-A. None whatever.

Q. It was quite late in the campaign. There was some purpose in getting these gentlemen together. What was to be done?-A. It was to rouse the enthusiasm.

Q. About how much of capital was represented at that meeting?— A. I could not tell you. I could not come within a million of dollars.