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Mr. PLATT. Would it be proper, upon the same theory, for us to put in the testimony of, say, ten witnesses to the effect that they have heard Mr. Slater, the employer in this instance, declare that he had never attempted to interfere with the political preferences of his workmen at any election?

Mr. McDONALD. I think not.

Mr. PLATT. Mr. Slater is probably an elderly gentleman or one who cannot attend upon the committee.

The WITNESs. He is in Europe now. He went off last week.

Mr. PLATT. Then he certainly cannot attend here. I should suppose that if the claim that is made here is conceded we would have a like right to introduce the testimony of men who had heard him affirm that he had never interfered with men in their voting.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not Mr. Slater but it is the voter as to whom the duress is here alleged.

Mr. BLAIR. It seems to me that if conversations with the voter are admissible as tending to show his frame of mind, upon the assumption that he was in fear or was intimidated, it should also be shown that that condition of mind had some result, or that, as a consequence of intimi. dation, he finally voted contrary to his judgment.

The CHAIRMAN. If the rule should be applied so strictly as it necessarily would be under that construction of it, it would prevent any practical result in an investigation like the present one. When men are situated as are the men whose votes are here inquired about, it is utterly impossible to show by them how they did vote until they are discharged. The purpose is to elicit the truth. These men are in the employ of certain other men, and the purpose, as I understand it, is simply to show that they were of one frame of mind, but, because of their fear of discharge, were compelled to act in a direction the reverse of that in which they would otherwise have acted.

Mr. BLAIR, Precisely. Then there are two facts to be proven: one the use of such intimidation as impelled the voter to vote contrary to his true sentiments, and the other that of the actual voting. If this loose testimony is admitted to show the intimidation prior to an election, no case is made out unless evidence is introduced to show that he not only actually voted, but that, as the result of intimidation, he voted contrary to his sentiments. When it comes to proof of the fact of voting, it does not seem to me that we ought to take hearsay.

The CHAIRMAN. This committee is a law unto itself, and has repeatedly, in its investigations in the South, enforced the rule as it is here proposed to be applied. If it should apply to poor colored men, we think it ought to apply to white men.

Mr. PLATT. I am not aware that the committee ever made that rule. The CHAIRMAN. It is upon that understanding of it that it has acted. We are now passing upon the question of intimidation, and the testimony is directed to that.

Mr. BLAIR. We have passed beyond the fact of intimidation, and the witness comes now to speak of the fact of voting. He says he does not know which way the man did vote, but that somebody told him the man voted so and so. That is not evidence of the fact of voting, cer

tainly.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. In what way do you know how this man, Edward Farrel, voted ? -A. Because he told me how he voted; that he voted for Thomas Tal

bot, and would have voted for Benjamin F. Butler if he had dared to do it. I have his word for it, nothing else, and I do not doubt that.

Q. What about the other man, Hugh Duffy ?-A. I say the same in regard to him.

Q. Were you at the election that day?-A. I was.

Q. Who of the bosses or agents did you see there?-A. I saw Mr. Fletcher, of the North Village. He was at that time considered the general agent or "super."

Q. What was he doing?-A. He stood in front of the ballot-box, making it his business to see how Slater's employés voted. I saw Asher Joslet.

[NOTE. At this point the committee was disturbed and the witness interrupted by an exclamation directed to the witness by a man in the audience, who said, "You old vagabond, weren't you turned out of your employment, and you went and sold fish?" The offender was promptly removed, at the instance of the chairman, by the sergeant-at-arms.]

Mr. PLATT (referring to the interruption). Let that be taken down if the stenographer heard it.

The WITNESS. I heard what he said.

He said that when I was turned

out of employment I had to go to work to sell fish to get a living in the winter. That is what he meant.

Mr. BLAIR (upon the examination being resumed). If this witness is so anxious to tell all that he knows, I withdraw all objections.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. Was Mr. Moore there ?-A. He was. He was one of the selectmen at that time.

Q. Give the politics of these men-Moore, Joslyn and Fletcher.-A. All are Republicans.

Q. What were they doing?-A. Moore was one of the board of selectmen. It is the business of Asher Joslyn and Fletcher to stand up there to see who vote the Republican ticket and who vote the Democratic ticket-that is their business-as near as they can find it out.

Q. Are you working for this corporation now?-A. No, sir; I am

not.

Q. Since when have you ceased to work for them?-A. I have not worked for them since 1878.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. Have you stated, Mr. Witness, all that you wanted to state in relation to this investigation?-A. If you have asked all the questions you want to ask, I have; if you have any more I will state further.

Q. Have you stated all the facts that you wanted to state that are pertinent to this matter?-A. In regard to the fall election?

Q. Yes.—A. I have in regard to that. If there is anything further than that, I can answer.

Mr. BLAIR. That is all, then.

WILLIAM GAGIN Sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Where do you live?-Answer. In Northbridge, Worcester County.

Q. Did you go there to vote last fall?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. State what occurred at that election in regard to your vote.—A.

I went there in the morning to vote, and voted between eleven and twelve o'clock. I had laid down my ballot in the box, and my name had been checked on the book, when Mr. Henry Whiting doubted my vote.

Q. He challenged your vote?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What for?-A. He said I could not read and write. Mr. Joseph Lazell took my vote out of the box and held it in his hand. They took a vote of the house on it, and they voted three to two to have it thrown out, and they threw it out on the floor.

Q. They rejected your vote ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you ever vote before?—A. I voted since the fall of 1869.
Q. Was there ever any objection to your vote before?—A. No, sir.
Q. Where were you naturalized?—A. In Worcester.

Q. Who were the three who voted against your right to vote; Republicans or Democrats?-A. Republicans.

Q. Can you write your name?-A. Yes, sir. I wrote my name on the back of the ballot, but they wanted me to write my residence, and others said there was no need of that. Then they took my ballot and threw it right out of the box, though they had my name checked on the books.

Mr. BLAIR. Was it not because you could not read the Constitution? The WITNESS. I can read the Constitution.

Mr. McDONALD. Just write your name there.

[The witness being supplied with pencil and paper here wrote as his name "William Gagin." The writing was inspected by the committee and filed by he stenographer with other papers.]

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. Have you ever written your name since the election day until now?-A. No, sir. I do not practice writing. I am a laboring man, and my hands are stiff from lifting heavy stone.

Q. What is your labor?-A. Working out in the farm.

Q. You do not keep any kind of a shop?-A. No, sir.

Q. Have you always been a laboring man?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. You have never kept a shop of any kind, nor saloon, nor worked in one?-A. No, sir.

Q. Have you been convicted of selling liquor?-A. No, sir.

Q. Have you ever been arrested or had any trouble of any kind from having sold liquor?-A. I was arrested, but I did not sell any liquor. Q. What was done with you when you were arrested?-A. I was put into jail willfully.

Q. "Wrongfully" I suppose you mean to say?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did you remain in jail?—A. Three months.

Q. By whose order were you put in jail?-A. By the order of the court, I suppose.

Q. You do not know what I mean in asking you whether you were convicted, do you? Did they find you guilty and say that you must go to jail and pay a fine?-A. Yes; they did.

Q. Were you tried?—A. Yes; I was tried.

Q. Who said you were guilty? Was there a jury?-A. Yes, sir; there was a jury.

Q. They lied about it ?—A. I did not sell any liquor at that time. Q. It was all false, this finding of the jury?-A. If I had sold it it would have been right. Some went there to swear that I sold it, but there was no one there to swear that I did sell it.

Q. What made the jury find you guilty, then?-A. Well, what made them take my ticket out of the box when it had a right to be in?

Q. That is another question, is it not? The fact is that they found you guilty and punished you by keeping you in jail?—A. They had nobody to swear that I did it.

Q. But they did find you guilty?-A. That was their business.

Q. The jury thought that the case was proven ?-A. Yes, sir; they thought that they did what was right, I suppose.

Q. It was the misfortune of the jury to be misled. How do you spell your name?-A. G-a-g-i-n.

[NOTE. In the answer just given, the witness at the first effort made use of "double g," but at once corrected this by substituting a single "g" as the middle letter of his name.]

Q. I thought I was right in regard to your name. You have the spelling of your name wrong both in your writing and your pronunciation of it.-A. I am not a capital writer.

Mr. McDONALD (referring to the name as written out). The name is here in the way that the witness spells it and pronounces it.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. You have stated that the vote was three to two. Is it not a fact that they voted unanimously that you should not be allowed to cast your ballot?—A. They voted three to two.

Q. How do you know that they voted three to two?-A. I know that they did.

Q. "How do you know" is the question?-A. There were five selectmen in it.

Q. Did not the whole five vote not to receive your ballot ?-A. I guess

not.

Q. You do not know that they did not? If all of them should come here and say that they all voted not to allow you to vote, you would think you were wrong about it, would you not?-A. I think I was not wrong about it. I think I am right.

Q. You had voted all the time for how long?-A. I voted since Mr. Greeley was going in. That was the first fall I voted, and I have voted

ever since.

Q. Did any one, at any other time, ask you to write or read at the polls?-A. Mr. Lazell asked me to write my name and read the constitution, and I wrote my name and read the constitution.

Q. When was that?-A. That was at the town election.

Q. Do you say that you did vote at the last spring election ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you had to write your name at that time?-A. Yes, sir; I wrote it.

Q. Did you not practice a little between last November and last spring?-A. I had a little.

Q. A few moments ago you said you had not written your name since last November?-A. Well, I had no chance to▬▬

Q. To refresh your memory. Did you not practice on writing your name a little?-A. They refused it because I would not write my residence upon it.

Q. This last spring they took it, did they not?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did it happen that they refused your vote last fall and took it this spring? Was it because you did not vote before the same men? -A. I suppose it was because they did not know what they were doing very well.

Mr. MCDONALD. The inquiry seems to be running into a matter at a town election.

Mr. BLAIR. It is testing the witness's recollection. [To the witness.] Have you not written your name more than once since last November until to day?-A. No, sir; I have never handled a pen since, not since last spring.

Q. Don't you write letters to anybody ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Don't you write receipts in your business transactions?-A. I don't have any business; I am only a farm laborer.

Q. Your business does not require you to read or write?-A. No, sir. Q. So that you do not do it at all?—A. I don't do it, hardly.

Q. You spoke of reading the constitution. Can you read?—A. A little.

Q. If I were to show you a book, could you tell whether it was the constitution or something else?-A. I guess so.

[The witness was here allowed to retire, but after a short time was again called to the stand and further examined as follows:]

Mr. BLAIR. We want to ask you about your capacity to read. Come around here to my chair and you and I will do this together. [Handing to the witness a large volume.] You will please find in that book the constitution of the commonwealth of Massachusetts. It is in the first part of the book. You can tell when you come to the constitution by the type on the page.

Mr. MCDONALD. The constitution itself does not require a voter to find the constitution, but to read it.

The witness after looking at the pages, returned the book to Mr. Blair, with an observation in an undertone.]

Mr. BLAIR. You could not find it? I think I can find it for you if must have me do it. I only want to understand as to your capacity to read, and by no manner of means to make any sport of you. [Turning to a part of the book and directing the attention of the witness to it.] That is a part of the constitution of Massachusetts. Begin right there and read. Begin at the end of the line on the left side of the page.

[NOTE. The witness here read aloud from the part indicated. As he proceeded, his reading was accompanied with a boisterous demonstration and noisy hilarity, culminating in outcries and hand-clapping, by a number of bystanders from among the audience.] Mr. BLAIR (to the crowd). Don't trouble the man. He reads part of this correctly. There is no occasion to make any sport of him. ought not to be insulted by this noise.

The witness continued his reading.

He

Mr. BLAIR. That is enough. The witness calls very many words correctly, there is no question about it; and I think that but for the interruption he would have read at least two-thirds of the matter correctly.

Mr. PLATT. Before going any further, Mr. Chairman, I would like to inquire whether this is a town meeting or the session of a committee of the Senate. If it is not a town meeting I desire that the sergeant-atarms shall keep order here.

The CHAIRMAN (who had promptly, upon the outbreak, rebuked the indecorous behavior here referred to) formally notified the disorderly portion of the assemblage that the sittings of the committee were pub lic merely by sufferance, and that a repetition of the disorder would necessitate the expulsion of persons present from the hall and the closing of the doors.

[After some time, the bystanders meanwhile having been obliged to be seated and order restored, the proceedings of the committee were resumed.]

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