The proper officer prefented at the bar of the House an estimate of effective men in the kingdom, in November, 1782, pursuant to an order made a few days ago. The proper officer prefented at the bar, feveral eftimates of different accounts, purfuant to former orders. Many reports from different committees were received and ordered to lie on the table. A great number of petitions were prefented by Mr. Ogle, the Right Hon. John O'Neil, the Provost, Mr. Mafon, Mr. Beresford, Sir Frederick Flood, Sir Henry Hartfonge and other members, praying aid from parliament for many manufactures in different places; and in behalf of the clerks of the Houfe, committee clerks, and the feveral door-keepers. The Right Honourable Thomas Conolly prefented a petition from a number of noblemen and gentlemen of Great Britain and Ireland, fetting forth the neceflity of repairing the roads from Holyhead through Anglesea and Carnarvonfhire, being the common communication between both kingdoms. This petition, with all the others, was referred to committees. Sir Frederick Flood moved an enquiry into the expenditure of the fum of three thoufand pounds, granted by parliament to the truftees of St. Patrick's hospital. Sir Edward Newenham faid, the precarious ftate of his health, the illness of an Honourable Member who intended to take an active and decided part in the reform bill, and the number of election committees that crowded fo faft on each other, induced him to poftpone moving for leave to bring in a bill for the reprefentation of the people that it never was his intention to lay the bill before the Houfe, until a fixed mode of reform had been generally adopted that he had moved that queftion in a former parliament, and renewed it now to preferve his priority in introducing the bill. He promised he would give eight or ten days notice. Adjourned until to-morrow. FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 1783. The Speaker ordered the defaulters of yesterday to be called over, after which Mr. Bourke moved, that the members in cuftody of the Serjeant at Arms, fhould be difcharged without paying fees, which being overruled, the Speaker put the queftion on each particular name, when many were discharged paying fees, and many without paying. When the name of Hayes St. Leger was called, the Houfe divided on his being difcharged, and there appeared for the discharge, Ayes, 27 89 Mr. Ogle, as chairman of the Dundalk committee, acquainted the Houfe, that in obedience to a fummons iffued by him, one Green had attended to give evidence, but was arrested on the fteps of the Parliament House, by Garret Plunket, a bailiff, at the fuit of Robert Small, of Pruffia-ftreet; that he produced the fummons, and after fome time the bailiff enlarged him, but that Small had been very angry, and declared he would make the bailiff pay the debt. Ordered, that Garret Plunket, and Robert Small do attend at the bar of the Houfe to-morrow morning. Mr. Fofter faid, that at a time when fo much public money was petitioned for, he was fure nothing would be more agreeable to gentlemen than to be fatisfied, that the money granted thould be faithfully applied; he would therefore move that no money be made payable for carrying on any canal, pier or building, until fuch money as might have been formerly granted be accounted for upon oath, before the commiffioners of impreft duties, and where the work has not been begun, until a proper plan and eftimate be delivered in, and fecurity given for the faithful execution thereof, by recognizance to be taken before the barons of the exchequer, and within a time mentioned in faid recognizance. He said such a resolution as this was abfolutely neceffary, in order to prevent the frauds which had, he feared, been hitherto practifed; but gentlemen would obferve, this refolution extended no further than grants for building; it did not extend to those that fhould be given for the encouragement of our manufactures, and, indeed, when it was confidered how numerous the applications had been on that head, and the vaft fums which were required, he feared, fuch was the prefent ftate of the nation, it would be impoffible to comply with them all, fuppofing them to be all meritorious; he had however a thought which he believed would anfwer the ends of all, and that was to give a bounty upon the exportation of those manufactures: every man would then get a just proportion according to the extenfivenefs of the branch. There was one gentleman, however, whom he could not confider in the fame predicament with the other perfons applying; it was Capt. Brooke, who stood peculiarly circumftanced, and had been induced to expend vaft fums on national accounts; firft, in bringing over many artifts who had determined to leave England and proceed to America; and fecondly, in building houfes, and fitting up convenient receptions for the diftreffed weavers of Dublin; he meant, therefore, that he should obtain fome grant, but that all the reft fhould be left to enjoy the bounty, which he believed might be about eight per cent. Sir Henry Cavendish begged the poftponing of the business till tu-morrow, that it might be confidered of. Sir Henry Hartflange requested it might be deferred till Tuesday next. Sir John Blaquiere thought, as many members were not prefent, it would be right to defer it till to-morrow, which Mr. Fofter agreed to; after which he observed fo many petitions had been preferred, that it would be impoffible to grant large fums to all; he faid he thought it beft to grant a bounty to fuch as appeared deferving, particularly for exporting woollen and cotton goods, wrought iron, &c. &c. fave to Captain Brooke, who, he faid, ought not to be claffed with the reft." General Luttrell.—Is any particular exception from the common method intended for encouraging manufactures, to be made in favour of Captain Brocke ? Mr. Fofter. A particular attention is propofed to be paid to him. General Luttrell faid, he would not take up the time of the Houfe in pronouncing a panegyrick upon a man, that he believed deferved reward as well as Captain Brooke because, was every gentleman to get up and beflow encomiums on thofe he patronized the Houfe would have nothing to do but liften to fine speeches; but in his opinion, every man cught either to ftand upon the ground of his own particular merit, or equal encouragement fhould be dealt to all. Sir John Blaquiere defired to know what encouragement was intended for the home confumption of our manufactures. To which Mr. Fefler faid, that it would be a point of infinite difficulty to decide, as any bounty on home confumption would be liable to great and innumerable frauds. Mr. Brownlow approved of encouraging the manufactures, by a bounty on export, but thought it would be wrong to make any exception in favour of Captain Brooke, notwithstanding his acknowledged merit; becaufe the most extenfive manufacturer would receive moft benefit from the bounty on exportation of goods manufactured. The Provo thought no diftinction fhould be made or preferment given. Mr. Foffer brought up feveral reports from Committees. Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Mofon brought up the general report from the committee of accompts. Mr. John Latouche faid, that the money due by difmiffed colle£tors, amounted to fuch an enormous fum, that in his opinion, parliament was loudly called upon to make enquiry into it; he would therefore move, "that the proper officer thould lay before the House, an account of all fums of money due by difmiffed collectors, fpecifying the fecurity given by each, and ftating what fteps had been taken to recover the debts. Mr. Mafon faid, that a return of all deficiencies by collectors, down to May laft, had been made, and now lay upon the table. Mr. Latouche replied, that the return did not go to the whole of his motion, which enquired as well after the fecurity given by the difmiffed collectors, as the fteps that had been taken to recover the debts. Sir John Parnel faid, that the board of commiffioners, in obedience to an order of government, had made out a lift of all the debts due by difmiffed collectors, down to the month of May laft. That the proper law officers were immediately employed to recover thofe debts; and he doubted not, they were purfuing the moft vigorous means. Mr. Solicitor Carleton affured the Houfe, that the proper law officers were affiduously attentive to this object, which he confidered as of great national importance. Mr. Latouche's motion paffed nem. con. Sir H. Cavendish moved, that Mr. Bolton have leave to withdraw the petiton, complaining of an undue election for the borough of Swords. Leave given. Mr. Denis Browne moved, that the proper officer do lay before the Houfe an account of the number of troops that were in the kingdom on the firft day of this month; alfo an account of the names and number of ftaff-officers in the kingdom, with the amount of their pay. Mr. Fofter moved, that the Houfe do refolve itself into a committee, on Monday next, for taking into confideration the supply to be granted to his Majefty. Sir Henry Cavendish requested it to be delayed till Tuesday next. Ordered for Monday. After leave was granted for committees on private business to fit to-morrow, the Houfe adjourned till Monday next. MONDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1783. The House balloted for a committee to try the merits of the Baltinglafs election, the following gentlemen were named. Sir John Parnel, Stephen Moore, Efq; Dan. Toler, Elq; General Luttrell obferved, that a motion had been made by an Honourable Gentleman fome days ago, that the proper officer fhould lay before the Houfe an account of the precife time when his Majesty's order to difcontinue the recruiting fervice in this kingdom had iffued; to comply with this motion the General faid was matter of impoflibility to the officer; he could indeed inform the House and the honourable mover, that the order from the Commander in Chief was dated the 3d of February, 1783, but at what time the Commander in Chief received his order from the Lord Lieutenant he did not know, much less what time the Lord Lieutenant had received his Majefty's commands for that purpose, or indeed whether his Excellency had received any commands at all, for he would have it understood, that the chief governor of this kingdom in many inftances, exercifes a difcretionary authority, and does not always wait for directions from England; however as he fuppofed the Honourable Gentleman's inquiry would be fatisfied by this information, that on the 3d of February orders had iffued to difcontinue the recruiting, he was happy to give it to him; if he wished to go to the fource of thofe orders it must be by way of addrefs to his Majetty, but if this information was fatisfactory, he would move that the order fhould be discharged. Hon. Mr. Browne, who had moved the order, declared, that provided the information was laid before the Houfe, it was indifferent to him whether it was obtained through the medium of an addrefs, or in compliance with an order. Mr. Flood faid he would not have it understood that fuch information could only be gained by an addrefs-a fimple order of the House he held fufficient-there were upon the journals inftances innumerable of both methods." Mr. Corry faid, that he was of the fame opinion, and he felt 'himfelf authorized to fay fo, for that he had examined the journals laft feflion, with particular care, on this very queftion, and found that orders of the houte and addreffes had been used indifcriminately, and that he would think it an infringement on the privileges of the Houfe if they were to be reftricted to the mode by addrefs. Sir H. Langrishe faid, that where it was poffible for an officer to comply with an order, that mode was practifed; but as to any thing beyond the power of an officer, it must be obtained by addrets. General Luttrell.-I cannot remain one moment filent under the imputation of reftraint, of any privilege of this houfe, no man in the Houfe would be farther from it; but the object of the order is abfolutely impracticable, for the Lord Lieutenant (Lord Temple) to whom his majefty's orders were fent, (if any orders were nt at all) is now in another kingdom, and fure the Hon. Gentle |
