my support of any particular man, or my advice to a negro as to what his political course should be, has never had the slightest possible influence upon him.

NEGROES IN DEMOCRATIC CLUBS.

Q. How, then, do you account for the fact that you have just now stated, that the negroes joined the democratic clubs and associations?— A. In my own judgment, that resulted in part from a sort of coercion. When I say coercion, I mean the influence exerted upon their minds. Probably I do not employ the right term in saying "coercion;" but the influence of those disturbances that occurred in the State-those outbreaks had alarmed the negroes, and had stricken a great deal of terror into them.

NEGRO PARADES.

There is no doubt that the negroes were very much disposed to have political parades, and their parades are not always as peaceable and quiet as they ought to be. Sometimes, if they were looked at properly, they ought to be considered as riots, for very frequently when they parade they stop in front of people's houses and alarm and frighten the people inside. Well, they stopped their parades there entirely when this outbreak in Clinton occurred, and when the disturbance broke out at Friar's Point where Governor Alcorn was.

THE FRIAR'S POINT DISTURBANCE.

This last disturbance was not very far from a place of mine, and reached within a few miles of it. Before that occurred, the negroes in that particular locality had exhibited a great disposition to have political parades, and these parades were always more or less terrifying to the women and those generally who lived in remote portions of the country not very well settled. On that particular occasion some twenty white people from the surrounding hill-country, where there are more whites living than in the county where I live, collected together and came down there for the purpose of checking these things and preserving the peace. That happened when I was away in Greenville; but I heard all about this thing after I came home.

Q. Were any persons killed at the Friar's Point riot, which you say was near one of your plantations?-A. This thing extended pretty near to my place; but the place is some sixty miles from Friar's Point. A' body of negroes assembled within four miles of my own place, with the object of going to re-inforce this crowd in Coahoma County. There was also an assemblage of white men, and they passed right by my place. while I was absent, for the purpose of driving those negroes away; but they did not come into collision, and there was no violence in that neighborhood.

PRACTICE OF CARRYING ARMS IN MISSISSIPPI.

Q. Were both sides armed-the negroes and the white people ?—A. I do not know, sir. I did not see them myself at all; but I imagine that they must have been armed, for the reason that nearly every one down there has some kind of arms.

Q. Do you speak of both black and white people?-A. The black people have not got them to the same extent as the whites have; but almost every man, black or white, who has money enough to buy firearms, has them. It is the greatest place on the face of the earth for pistols. No man is comfortable down there unless he has got his pistols.

WHITE OPPOSITION TO NEGRO CONTROL OF POLITICS.

The white people there are determined that the colored population

shall not control that country and its politics; and I believe that they will remain so to all time.

By Mr. MCMILLAN:

Q. Irrespective of the provisions of the Constitution of the United States-A. They are determined that the negro population shall not control the political affairs of that State. One reason is because the negroes are negroes, and another is because the negroes are ignorant and the white people are more intelligent; and another reason is that nearly all the property down there is in the hands of the white people; and still another reason is that the negroes, when they get the power in their hands, are disposed to monopolize everything themselves.

Q. Do I understand you to say that they determine to do this in opposition to the express provision of the Constitution of the United States authorizing these people to vote?

BELIEF THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT CONCERNING SUF-
FRAGE IS A CIPHER.

A. I think that the general feeling down there at this time among the democrats and it is coming to be a belief among republicans too-is this: that that part of the Constitution which says that no man shall be denied the right of suffrage or any of his civil rights on account of race or previous condition of servitude, has pretty much become a cipher; and that the national republican party, just like the democratic party, have abandoned the enforcement of that provison of the Constitution down there; and that the negroes are not to look to the Government for protection of that kind.

Q. Is that because they believe that that provision of the Constitution cannot be enforced-A. I believe if there was a belief down there that that provision was going to be enforced, every negro would vote the republican ticket.

Q. Then, notwithstanding this provision of the Constitution securing them these rights, the white people down there are determined to control the matter and prevent them from exercising those rights?-A. I think they are fully determined that it shall not be done in such a way as to give the negroes the control of the country.

Q. Even if it should be necessary to resist this provision of the Constitution: is that what you understand to be the feeling?-A. I suppose, if the question were submitted to the people as to whether they would enforce the laws to carry out that provision of the Constitution, that it would be a dead letter.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) You mean, by the people, the white people?— A. Yes, sir.

Q. (By Mr. McMILLAN.) You spoke of the vast majority of the democratic party as being white people?—A. Nearly every one of them. No matter what may be the state of the case, whenever any set of white men in the South propose to make the negro an element in politics, whenever any body of men down there set out with the idea that the negro shall become a power in politics, that very moment the other white leaders who oppose them will be able to rally the white race against it. The presentation of the negro as an element of politics in the South, in my judgment, will invariably enable the leaders who oppose such movement, to rally the white voters down there against it.

Q. Upon a presentation of that question-the mere question of the facts as they are now, that the blacks have the right of suffrage, which, where they are in a majority, would enable them to control an electiondo I understand you to say that the determination among the white

people is that the blacks would not be permitted to control the election if a majority of them should vote in that particular direction?—A. To give you a categorical answer to that question, I believe they would not be if they organized, as they are strongly disposed to do, in one solid black mass, and I believe the only way on the face of the earth to enable them to control an election, if they organized for the purpose of carrying out their black policy, would be for Federal authority to inter fere and protect them in that organization. I do not think that they could protect themselves, nor that the people of Mississippi, or any other Southern State, would protect them. It is true that most of these people who do these things are not aware of the fact that that is a provision of the Constitution. When you tell them that the Constitution guarantees the protection of this race in their political rights, and that laws have been passed for that purpose, securing that guarantee, that is a thing they have not thought about. I have frequently had occasion. to do that, because I have often been asked by parties down there, in a perfectly candid and fair spirit, what was the reason that I supported the republican party, and this has been my answer: that I considered that every man was obliged to support the republican party or policy because we were pledged by the Constitution to protect these people.

JUDGES OF ELECTION AND SUPERVISORS-HOW APPOINTED.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) Are the judges of election and the supervisors for the present year appointed in Mississippi?-A. I am not able to tell you whether they are or not. The judges of election are appointed for a fixed period. I think that their present appointments expire about the middle of the coming summer, before the next election comes on. The other day I was informed by Governor Ames that the legislature had recently passed an act for the purpose of organizing a different method of election, and that by that act the authority had been taken away from the officers who formerly exercised the power of appointing election officers and had been put in the hands of the gov ernor, the president of the senate, and the secretary of state. They were formerly chosen by the circuit judges, the chancellors, and the sheriffs. The statute last year required that there should be three registers of election in each county; one to be appointed by the circuit judge, one by the chancellor, and a third by the sheriff; and the law required that at least one of the three should be of the opposite political party from the other two, so that one of them was generally a democrat and the other two republicans. I do not remember now that I heard of any accusations of fraud at the election last year. I do not remember that I heard of any charges of that kind.

Q. The registrars of election are a different class of officers, are they not, from the judges of election ?-A. My recollection is that the regis trars are judges themselves of the elections. Who appoints the judges I am not quite certain. I know that these officers that I spoke of appointed the registrars; but the registrars hold the election at the countysite. It was a thing that I did not investigate particularly. I had the appointment of one of the registrars in various counties, as chancellor. I did not appoint any judges; but I remember that these registrars were seen exercising the power of judges of election at the county-site.

FIFTH DAY.

WASHINGTON, May 4, 1876.

Continuation of the examination of THOMAS WALTON.

AGGREGATE REPUBLICAN VOTE.

By Mr. McDONALD:

Question. In the State elections preceding the election of 1875, can you state about what the aggregate republican vote was?-Answer. My impression is that the republican vote has been in the neighborhood of seventy-five thousand; but I have a bad recollection of numbers, and it may be that I err greatly in stating things of that kind.

Q. From the tabular statement attached to the testimony of Governor Ames it appears that in 1873 the aggregate vote for the republican candidate for treasurer of State was 70,462. That was the year that Governor Ames and Senator Alcorn were the competing candidates for governor?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. I ask you if that aggregate is about what you understood the republican vote of the State to be prior and at that time?-A. The aggregate vote for treasurer in 1873, you mean?

Q. Yes, sir; 70,462.-A. I never noticed that particular vote, but from 1870 to 1875 that has been about what I think the vote of the republican party in the State was; that has been my idea of the strength of the republican party in the State.

Q. Were you in the State in 1869?-A. I was; but not during the whole of the canvass. I was at the Hot Springs, Ark., during a large portion of that canvass.

Q. Do you remember the aggregate republican vote for that year?— A. I don't know, sir; I am not able to state from memory the vote for any particular time, or for any particular person, very accurately. I have only a general recollection of what the republican vote was. think, however, that is, my recollection is, that Governor Alcorn was elected over Dent in 1869 by some 38,000 votes. I think Dent got about 35,000 or 36,000 votes; that is, however, a statement from vague memory only.

Q. Were you in the State during the canvass and election, at the time that General Humphreys was candidate for governor ?-A. I was in the State during all the time; but I was not at the election.

Q. The new constitution was voted on at that same election, was it not?-A. I believe it was.

Q. And defeated?—A. Yes, sir; that is my recollection, that it was defeated at that election.

Q. Do you recollect what vote General Humphreys got?-A. I do

not.

Q. Or what the aggregate vote in opposition to him was?-A. I do not remember the aggregates on that occasion at all.

THE LAST DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR.

Q. Was not General Humphreys the last democratic candidate for governor in Mississippi, down to the present time?-A. I believe he was, sir; he was the last man who was looked upon as a democratic candidate for governor.

Q. Did he not receive a majority of the votes cast at the gubernatorial election in 1868?-A. My impression is that he did, sir.

Q. Has it ever been pretended, as far as you know, that the republi

can vote of 1873 was not a full vote?—A. I do not know that I can say that I believe it was not a full vote. The ticket that was in the field against the republican party-against Ames-was beaten.

Q. I am speaking of the republican vote, not of the opposition.-A. Yes, sir; I am going to tell you. The Alcorn party claimed that they had many supporters among the republicans, and that many prominent republicans supported that ticket. Whether that was so or not I am not able to say; but Alcorn himself was a republican, and I believe that his ticket was a republican ticket, as far as I recollect. They claimed that they represented the republican party. Consequently, it may be that the republican vote on that occasion supporting the Ames party was not a full vote. I am not able to say whether it was or not, for the opposition did not run as democrats; they ran as republicans, and they had a good many republican supporters that were public men in the State. Whether they had any voters in the republican party besides these public men I do not know.

WHITE AND BLACK MAJORITIES BY COUNTIES.

Q. Is not the numerical majority of the blacks in that State confined to comparatively few counties; are there not more counties in the State having white majorities than there are counties having black majorities?-A. I think there are a good many more counties having white majorities than there are counties having black majorities; but I am not able to state that with great certainty. It is a question to which my attention was never particularly called. A great many of the counties are thinly settled, and those that are thus thinly settled are gen erally those having white majorities; although it is not always the case that counties having white majorities are very thinly settled. I believe, however, that the most populous counties in the State have black majorities, the black population being more massed than the white population.

STATE TAXATION UNDER GOVERNOR AMES.

Q. You stated yesterday that you did not think the State expenses had been much increased under the administration of Governor Ames. Can you state the percentage of State taxation ?—A. I cannot, sir.

Q. In any year?-A. I cannot state it with accuracy; but the aggregate of State taxes before the war was very much less than the aggregate of State taxes has been since the war.

TAXATION FOR SCHOOLS.

A large portion of the aggregate since the war has been made up of taxes for the support of schools; and the democratic legislature in Mississippi to-day find themselves very much embarrassed in the effort to reduce the taxation on account of the school system, as the taxation necessarily has to be a great deal larger than it was before the war ou that account. But the present democratic legislature has stopped the school-tax altogether. My impression is that we did not have any State or county taxes before the war for the support of schools; that we depended entirely for the support of schools upon the sixteenth section-that is, the Federal Government's donations of land. There was one portion of the State where they did not depend upon the sixteenth section, but a portion of the amount received by the United States from the sale of public lands was given for school purposes. There may have been taxes for school purposes at some period of the State's existence before the war, but none that I am aware of.

PERCENTAGE OF LOCAL TAXATION.

Q. You speak of local taxes being greatly increased in some cases