MAY 29, 1834.] Names on the Pension Roll. [SENATE. vors of that glorious struggle assembled in that new county army as citizens of those counties, were now to be found to make their applications for the pensions granted by it. at the West, as emigrants from the old to the new parts He did not know the fact, but he presumed that of the of the State. A proper consideration of these facts, he number thus assembled there would not have been found was sure, would convince the honorable Senator that his five who claimed to have served either in the New York mode of reasoning was unjust and must lead him to erroline or the New York militia. The county is almost ex-neous and unjust conclusions. The supposition that the clusively settled from the States of Massachusetts and population of the States had maintained their proportions Vermont, and the pensioners now residing within it are from the time of the Revolution to the present day, was nearly all emigrants from those and other States. Inas- inadmissible, as contradicting known facts, and to suppose much as this county had no white population during the that the soldiers of that seven years' war had remained war, if the premises of the gentleman be sound, it should more stationary than any other equal portion of the pophave no pensioners now, and his reasoning is, that the ulation of the States, was equally against probability fact that it has, raises the presumption that the applica- and fact. tions have been sustained by fraud. Mr. W. said, he was glad that the amendment offered by the honorable Senator from New Jersey, directing the call to embrace the line or corps in which each pensioner served, had been adopted, because that would show where these veterans of each State now reside. He was perfectly willing that any proper scrutiny, as to the pension. ers residing within his State, should be had, and he had no fear that the call, as now made, would show a greater number of those pensioners from the New York line, or the New York militia, than the proportion which the numbers of those corps, actually in service, would be found to bear to the whole army. Mr. W. said, he knew the honorable Senator would not contend that this was true as to all these cases, but he seemed to think it must be as to a large portion of them. If the gentleman was as well acquainted as himself with the population, and the progress of settlement of the western portions of New York, he would change his opinions. Where, he would ask the honorable Senator, was now the population of New York? Of its 2,000,000 of inhabitants, he felt confident he should be within the fact when he said that at least 1,000,000 was to be found in portions of the territory of the State where there was no white population at the close of the revolutionary Mr. W. said he felt sure the honorable Senator had not war. The county of Oneida, the most populous county selected New York, so peculiarly, for the purpose of of the State, the city and county of New York alone ex- his comparisons, from any invidious motive. He had excepted, was a wilderness, inhabited by the savages exclu- pressly disavowed any such intention, and he, Mr. W., sively, until long after the close of that war. He believed should not have been able to convince himself of the exit was true that there might have been a block-house or istence of such a motive, if the disavowal had not been two, or some slight works, erected for defence against made. But he must say, it did appear to him, if it had the Indians, within its territory, during or before the ter- been the sole object of the Senator, reasoning from the mination of the war, but the county was unsettled and un-premises he had chosen to assume, to have shown the palinhabited by the whites until after that period. Now, he pable disparity between the troops in service from each believed, if a line were drawn across the State, as far State, and the number of pensioners now residing within east as the east bounds of this county, nearly, if not quite it, that he might have obtained much stronger instances the one-half of the white population of the State would than that between South Carolina and New York, by be found west of such line. The most of this population turning his attention to the new States of the West. He too, would be found to consist of emigrants from other had told the Senate, that the troops furnished by New States since the Revolution, and they had brought with York and South Carolina were nearly equal, and that the them a full share, he thought he could say a large share, pensioners residing in New York at the present time, of the soldiers of the Revolution. Was it unnatural that were eighteen times as many as those residing in South it should be so? Who so likely to emigrate from the thick- Carolina. If the honorable Senator had taken Ohio, ly-settled portions of the old States to the great West, to how would his comparison have resulted? Mr. W. said the unexplored wilderness, as the soldiers of that war? he had not looked at the report to which the gentleman They undoubtedly came out of that war, as most of them had referred, but he presumed that Ohio now returned a went into it, poor, and unable to purchase the cultivated number of pensioners equal to that of South Carolina. and valuable land of the old States. Mr. W. said it was [Here Mr. PRESTON remarked, Four times as many.] not the rich, but the poor men of a country, in any war, Then, said Mr. W., Ohio has within it four times as many who constituted its soldiery and filled the ranks of its ar-revolutionary pensioners as South Carolina, and Ohio did mies; and it was not the rich, but the poor men of a coun- not furnish a soldier for the service-Ohio did not contry, who constituted the pioneers of its wilderness and first tain a white man, till years after the war. South Caroswept away its forests and cultivated its soil. This would lina, therefore, furnished just as many more men for the always be the work of those whose pecuniary circum- service than Ohio, as the whole number of men she sent stances compel them to earn their living by the labor of into that great struggle, and still Ohio presents four times their own hands, and who can only acquire homes where as many pensioners from that service, as are presented by land is cheap and can be made valuable by their own im- South Carolina. Here Mr. W. said, the gentleman had provements. Such were the soldiers of the Revolution, a comparison, not counting in tens, but in thousands, and and vast numbers of them left their residences in the set- he would not attempt to establish the rate per cent. adtlements and pushed their way into western New York. vantage to Ohio, but would leave it with the other calcuMr. W. said he would remind the honorable Senator lations of the Senator. He must, however, be permitted that the counties of Westchester and Saratoga, perhaps to suppose that the honorable gentleman would see, from more emphatically than any other portions of New York, this instance, the palpable injustice of his comparisons, except the city, were the seat of war, and still he could and the erroneous impressions they would be likely to not be mistaken in supposing that Oneida and many other create. According to his positions, Ohio, Indiana, Illiof the comparatively new counties, would be found to be nois, Misssouri, and the new States at the Southwest, the places of residence of a greater number of revolu- ought not to present a pensioner, as they were not intionary pensioners than either of the counties he had first habited at the time of the war, and therefore presented named. The reason was obvious. Their populations no troops for the service. Still it was admitted that they were much greater, and were composed as much of those all did present pensioners, and surely the gentleman who lived and acted in the scenes of that war, as the peo- would not contend that the single fact of their not havple of those counties. Indeed, many, who served in the ing sent troops into the revolutionary army was proof SENATE.] Names on the Pension Roll. [MAY 29, 1834. that all the pension applications from those States were false and fraudulent. On the contrary, the error was, that the honorable Senator had not made allowance for the great changes of location of the inhabitants of the old States, and reflection would satisfy him that the grounds he had assumed, and the conclusions he had drawn, from us a people in the first age of their existence, without arerroneous premises, were manifestly unjust to some of the States. trate the cases of our revolutionary pensioners, he does them injustice. When the Senator shall point us to the history of men fighting for liberty, from the love of liberty, with the known alternative of doubtful independence on the one hand and slavery on the other; when he shows mies, without money, without concert, rising up against a gigantic and powerful Government which had exercised Mr. PRESTON replied at length to Mr. WRIGHT and dominion over them, with a spirit that would not calcuothers, commenting extensively upon the whole pension late the hazards which opposed their resistance to opsystem; and, in the course of his remarks, compared the pression, with a resolution that neither hunger or nakednumber of pensioners in New York with those in Ohio, ness or exposure could subdue, with a purpose to sacrifice and compared also the populations of the two States, to life and fortune, and every thing but honor, in the desshow that the population of the latter was half that of the perate struggle for civil and religious freedom; when he former, while the number of persons receiving pensions shall show us such a people, and shall then trace their residing within the latter, was but about one-fifth of the history through perils and sufferings and blood to a sucnumber appearing to reside within the former. Hence cessful termination of their struggle, and shall point to us he inferred that Mr. WRIGHT'S mode of accounting for the happy results of their devoted lives and fortunes, in the the great number of pensioners residing in New York, establishment of a great and prosperous nation, proud in by the emigration to that State from other States, was not its glorious institutions, the work of their wisdom, abunsupported by facts. dant in its treasures, the fruit of their toils; then, sir, when Mr. WRIGHT rejoined. He said he should not be we find such a nation looking with a cold and unpitying led by the gentleman into a discussion of the pension sys-eye upon the few lingering monuments of war-worn patem; that the resolution before the Senate, was a call for triots, whose blood was shed, whose purse was drained, information, and he had no disposition to discuss the now mendicants in the streets, inmates of the alms-houses, questions which might arise when the information should or starving on the commons, while their sons are luxuribe obtained, in anticipation, or upon a supposed state of ating in the rich rewards of their sufferings, then, and facts. He should be ready to meet those questions when not till then, shall we have a parallel case. None such the facts were settled, but he must decline wholly at- can be found in any war in any other country, nor in any tempting to settle them upon hypotheses, and especially other war that has been or can hereafter be waged in in considering a call for the facts. His object, therefore, this. I concur in the opinion that in relation to the last in rising at this time, was simply to answer the remarks war, we have carried our pension system to an extreme. of the Senator as to the disparity in the number of pen-Our soldiers fought bravely, but they encountered the sioners between Ohio and New York, and, this done, he ordinary chances of war; honor and fame awaited them would detain the Senate no longer. The answer seemed if victorious; the liberal stipulations of a regular and wellplain to his mind, and, upon its being suggested, he established Government secured them all the comforts a thought it would be equally plain to the Senate. The soldier can require while in service, just provision for revolutionary soldiers were the early emigrants from the themselves if disabled, and a maintenance for their famiold States. They were not modern emigrants, as their lies if slain, with an assurance of honorable treatment ages must necessarily satisfy every gentleman. Western while prisoners, and a certain deliverance if they should New York was opened to them immediately after the fall into the hands of their foes. Not so with the revolu peace of 1783, and they soon began to form settlements tionary soldier and patriot. The certainty of comfortable there. The territory now composing the State of Ohio, provisions for himself and his family was only to be found was then beyond the reach of settlement, and it was many by uniting with the enemy. The treasury from which years after, and when western New York had become his emolument was to be derived was empty and bankmeasurably full, that the emigration flowed over it into rupt. No obligations of ordinary warfare exempted him Ohio. Before that period had arrived, most of these old from the penalties of treason and the ignominy of the soldiers had fixed themselves down in permanent abodes halter if captured. And, finally, if slain, the only legacy nearer to the settlements of the old States. Hence, he could leave to his widowed wife and orphan children, when the tide set most strongly to Ohio, there would was a draft upon the charities of his countrymen, who had have been among the emigrants a much less proportion- no settled Government to redeem it. Pension laws may ate number of revolutionary soldiers. induce a mercenary feeling hereafter, but certainly the Even now, Mr. W. said, their descendants from west-light of heaven never shed itself upon a body of men ern New York were beginning to move on, not into, but less moved by motives of avarice than those who fought beyond, Ohio, into the States of Indiana, Illinois, and Mis-the battles of the Revolution. I repeat, that no case can souri; but few, very few of these aged patriots would be again occur to resemble it; and, therefore, a system of found among the emigrants. They remained at the pensions peculiar to it is strictly proper. homes they had established in their younger days. The How far the apprehensions of the Senator from South weight of years had become too heavy upom them to ren- Carolina, in regard to the "corrupt agencies," may be der them willing again to seek the wilderness and again justified by fact, I am not prepared to say. I would fain to encounter the hardships of a new country. This hope that in regard to members of Congress, there can seemed to him a sufficient reason for the diminution in be no just foundation for them. As a Senator, I should the number of pensioners as the emigration was follow-feel humbled to the last degree could I believe that any ed West. man, honored by the votes of any district in this Union, [The discussion was further continued by Messrs. would condescend to traffic in such business-to abstract SPRAGUE, EWING, PRESTON, FORSYTH, and CALHOUN.] for his pecuniary profit one farthing from the poor pitMr. CHAMBERS said: I do not rise, Mr. President, tance allowed to a revolutionary soldier to secure his old for the purpose of going into the argument upon which age from want. As well might he ask money for the the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. CALHOUN] has enter-crumbs from his table which ministered to the necessity ed, but to express my dissent in toto from his doctrine of his father. If there has been a member of Congress upon the subject of revolutionary pensions. When he who has robbed a poor old soldier of the Revolution refers to the history of other nations-when he refers to of one cent of his country's bounty, by selling the serlater periods, in our own history, for instances to illus-vices which he is bound gratuitously to render, his name MAY 30, 31, 1834.] Adjournment of Congress.-U. S. Marine Corps.-Restoration of the Deposites. should be proclaimed, that he may meet the scorn and reprobation of the community. [Mr. CALHOUN here made some remarks, which have not been reported.] [SENATE. in future. He was in favor of the amendment, but would go further, and apply it both to the marine corps and to the army. He saw no reason, however, why they should not repeal the act as regarded the marine department, alMr. CHAMBERS said he repeated the hope, that the though they might not be able to repeal it at present in Senator's apprehensions as to the speculations upon pen-relation to the army. They might act in the latter case sioners, were unfounded. He did not assent to the pro- when they had occasion to get up an army bill. priety of assigning to "six months men" the odium which Mr. CHAMBERS was as willing to repeal the brevet had been cast upon them. Certainly, those who served act as any one, but he was opposed to selecting any parlonger had more merit, and the law made a just distinc- ticular branch of the military department for this purtion. But even these six months men had, many of them, pose. Such conduct would be invidious, and would be rendered efficient services; and he believed a large pro-striking at that which the soldier held most dear-his portion of the American people felt the same sentiment honor. Suppose Congress were to stop this mode of he did, that rather than see a revolutionary soldier, though promotion in the artillery, and not in the infantry, what he served but six months, bowed down with age, in pen- would be the feeling of the officers of the former body? ury and want, they will divide with him the last dollar Would they not have good reason to consider themselves they have, conscious that they are indebted to him and unjustly treated? his compatriots, not only for that dollar, but for every other enjoyment, civil and political, they possess. Mr. SOUTHARD regarded the question of command as the one to be settled; that of rank was to be left to the law. The resolution was then, as before stated, laid upon Mr. LEIGH thought a lieutenant was entitled to some the table for a day or two, to afford further time to in- command in right of his office; he held the same relation quire into the subject. to the captain that a colonel did to a brigadier general, The Senate, then, on motion of Mr. CLAYTON, pro-and Mr. L. thought all were bound to obey the commands ceeded to Executive business, and after some time spent of their superiors. therein, The Senate adjourned. FRIDAY, MAY 30. ADJOURNMENT OF CONGRESS. The question was now taken on the amendment, which was lost. The bill was then ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time. RESTORATION OF THE DEPOSITES. A message was received from the House of Represent- Mr. CLAY moved to take up for consideration the atives, by Mr. Franklin, their Clerk, stating that the joint resolutions submitted by him, relative to the deHouse had passed a joint resolution fixing the time for the posite of the public moneys in the Bank of the United adjournment of Congress, in which they asked the con- States. currence of the Senate. UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS. The bill for the better organization of the United States Marine Corps was read a second time, and considered as in Committee of the Whole. Mr. SOUTHARD explained the grounds on which the provisions of the bill were predicated, urged the utter insufficiency of the marine corps, as heretofore organized, specified the nature and design of the provisions of this bill, and argued the importance and necessity of carrying them into effect. Mr. FORSYTH objected to the bill, on the ground that it would be unnecessarily increasing the number and expense of the corps in question. Mr. BIBB moved to insert on the 3d page, 4th line, the following words, viz. "first by promotion, according to rank, and then by selection." The section would then read thus: "That no commissions now existing in the marine corps shall be affected by this act, and that the President may, during a recess of Congress, appoint of ficers, first by promotion, according to rank, and then by selection." A division took place upon the amendment, which was carried. Mr. BIBB then moved to add further, "That all acts authorizing the granting of brevet rank for other than gallant conduct, are hereby repealed." Mr. POINDEXTER was in favor of the amendment of Mr. BROWN remarked, that these resolutions were very important in their character; he therefore thought, as several seats were vacant, it would be very improper to take them up at this time. He was ready to give his vote at any time upon them, but it was hardly treating absent gentlemen fairly to pass them now. Mr. WRIGHT asked whether it was in order to take up a subject of a public nature, this being a day set apart for the consideration of private bills. absence of other members. His only wish was, that the Mr. CLAY said he had no wish to take advantage of the reading, and then let the subject lie over till Monday. resolution might be ordered to be engrossed for a third Mr. WRIGHT asked the Secretary to read the order which had been adopted, setting apart Fridays and Saturdays exclusively for private business. The order was read. Mr. CLAY then gave notice, that, on Monday next, whoever were absent or whoever were present, he would press the resolutions to a final passage. The Senate then took up, considered, and ordered several bills to a third reading. The bill making a grant of lands, to enable the college of Hanover, in the State of Indiana, to establish an institution for teaching the deaf and dumb, was read the secthe Senator from Kentucky, [Mr. BIBB,] but was of opin-ond time; and, after having been explained and advocated ion that it ought to apply to the officers of the army as well as to those of the marine corps. by Messrs. HENDRICKS and POINDEXTER, and opposed by Messrs. SOUTHARD, GRUNDY, CLAY, and SPRAGUE, the bill was, on motion of Mr. POINDEXTER, laid on the table. Mr. CLAY was opposed to the practice of brevetting for mere length of service. Upon this principle, if the parties lived long enough, the Government might have ten colonels or generals, where only one officer of that description was required for the service of the country. He (Mr. C.) was for giving brevets to those who were After disposing of several other bills, the Senate, on at present entitled to them, but he would repeal the act motion of Mr. KING, of Alabama, took up the bill for by which brevets were granted, so as to remedy the evil the relief of Mountjoy Baily. SATURDAY, MAY 31. SENATE.] Mountjoy Baily. [MAY 31, 1834. Mr. MOORE said this bill contained a principle, as it time, and left the interest to be applied for at a future regarded commutation, against which the Committee on time. Revolutionary Claims had unanimously reported. This Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN wished that he could vote for bill had been committed to them late in the last session, this bill; but, after the discussion which had taken place and had been brought forward this session without taking the other day, he could not. The petitioner, in the pres the usual course through a committee. He therefore ent case, had already received $2,250 for pay, and in four moved that it be recommitted to the Committee on Revo-years after he comes again and applies for interest upon lutionary Claims. the amount for all the time. Mr. F. thought the only safe Mr. POINDEXTER thought there was no necessity for principle upon which the Senate could proceed, was nevrecommitting it, as it was well understood that the com-er to pay interest unless the Government had itself negmittee would report against it. It had been the practice lected to pay the principal. of the Government to allow interest on such claims, and if this poor man was to be made an exception, be it so. Mr. BLACK instanced several particular cases of this kind, decided by yeas and nays, in which interest had been allowed. He hoped it would not be referred, because a reference would be equivalent to the defeat of the bill. Mr. BELL said the present case was not a demand for the payment of interest; it was a claim for fifty years' half pay. Any gentleman who attentively examined the matter, could see that this was the case. If a suit were brought by this claimant against the United States, in a court of law, what could Congress do? They would be obliged to pay the sum demanded. They had promised Mr. BELL was not disposed to refer the bill. The to pay this money, and any court could compel them to House had always been in favor of allowing interest on do it. The claim was for fifty years' half pay, Congress such claims, and the Senate, till very lately. At the last had paid a part of what was due, and would they now resession, the committee of the Senate had taken a differ-fuse to pay the remainder? It was objected, that the adent view of the subject, for the purpose of reversing the mission of this claim would have the effect of bringing decision. Mr. B. thought this view erroneous. He into existence many others. He (Mr. B.) knew this was thought the general principle adopted by Congress, of a very prevailing argument at this time; but he begged to not paying interest, was not strictly applicable to the ask the Senate whether it were prepared to refuse the present case. Congress had engaged, by contract, to claims of a man who had fought for their independence, continue half pay for life to such officers as served to the merely because other demands might be brought against close of the war; but, as this arrangement was not satis- the Treasury? Mr. B. concluded by calling for the quesfactory to the people, it was proposed to give five years' tion by ayes and noes, in order, as he said, they might full pay in lieu thereof. The claim of half pay for life have one more manifestation of the feeling of the Senate could be established in any court of justice, and the claim in relation to these matters. now presented, including interest, would amount to only half of the claim for half pay for life. Mr. B. therefore thought it would be unjust to withhold the interest. Mr. WHITE argued against the bill, and said its object was to give to Mountjoy Baily interest on five years' full pay, which he had received in commutation for the half Mr. MOORE, alluding to Mr. BELL's assertion that, af-pay for life promised him by the old Congress. Mr. W. ter this session, there would be no more applications of said that, as a member of the committee to which this this description, said, that if the gentleman would look claim had been referred, he had taken particular pains to over the documents he would change his opinion. Du-examine it, and had come to the conclusion that Mr. Bairing the former session there were but few, and in the ly was not entitled either to the principal or interest of present session there had been many, and the claims the sum which he demanded. Mr. W. went on to prove seemed to increase. They came forward not merely to this assertion, and to show that the claimant had never exask for the principal sum, but also interest upon it, as if hibited any satisfactory proof that he was entitled to the to see what they could get out of the Government. He pension he had received. denied that decisions in favor of paying interest had been uniform. He could turn to cases in the statute-books, where the individuals had received the principal without the interest. The honorable Senator had thought it a hard case to refuse interest, and that paying interest to this day would only be equivalent to the payments which had been made fifty years ago. It was no such thing; and if the principle were carried out, there would be millions of dollars to be paid under this bill. He thought, on looking to the documents, it would be found to be doubtful whether the individual was actually entitled to He did not wish to defeat the bill, but he wished to establish a proper precedent, and to have the final judgment on the bill. pay. Mr. CHAMBERS wished to know how many final judgments were to be had; this bill had been already before the Senate many times. Mr. CHAMBERS read an affidavit made by Mr. Baily, stating that the necessary evidence in support of his claim had been sent to the Secretary of War some years ago, and that the documents had never been returned to him, so that it was not in his power to present them when they were demanded upon a subsequent occasion. Mr. WHITE did not think the case at all altered by what had been said by the Senator from Maryland, [Mr. CHAMBERS.] He (Mr. W.) had a paper stating that the documents of the claimant had been returned to him. Mr. W. then proceeded to argue upon what he considered to be the general impropriety of claims of this kind. The principle comprised in them, he said, was very extensive; the Government might be called upon in this way to pay enormous sums. The interest upon a pension of only $100 would amount, in 45 years, to nearly three times as much as the principal. It was high time that the Senate should understand the nature of these claims. He was satisfied, that in acceding to them, they would be proceeding upon ground which was unjust and dangerMr. CHAMBERS said it was an ingenious argument. ous to the country. A revolutionary soldier applied in In that case the Senator from Alabama had agreed with the first instance for land. Well, land was plentiful, and him. He produced the bill for the relief of James Bur-in some of the new States they were glad to get settlers; net, as a precedent, wherein interest had been allowed. the Government, therefore, readily granted a piece of The honorable Senator from Alabama said the man had had justice done to him, inasmuch as he had received the half pay which was due to him. The old soldiers were all poor. They came and applied for their pay, and, as that supplied their present need, they took it at the Mr. MOORE referred to the recent case of the heirs of Lieutenant Wilde, as a precedent, in which interest had not been allowed. land to the applicant; but by so doing they tacitly admit ted that he had served till the end of the war, and laid themselves open to a claim for commutation; this claim was immediately made, and what came next? Why, a demand for interest, amounting, in some cases, as he (Mr, JUNE 2, 1834.] Mountjoy Baily.-Augusta (Me.) Memorial. [SENATE. W.) had shown, to nearly three times the principal. If found to be wrong, the courts had to retrace their steps, the applicant were to bring his claim to all this at once, and reverse the decision; he had yet to learn that a legis scarcely a Senator would be found to vote in favor of it; lative decision was to have the same binding influence on but, by breaking it into doses, he accomplished his ob- the body as in courts of law. He had understood that ject. The system was not confined either to the living; different members of the Committee on Revolutionary if the Senate passed the bill they would make a prece-Claims had decided both ways. He could not distinguish dent which would extend to the heirs of the revolutionary between the recent case of the heiress of Wilde and the soldiers, and which would also enable an individual to let present case. The allowance to revolutionary soldiers his pension lie over as long as he pleased, for the purpose was not in the nature of a pension. Congress had promof procuring interest. But suppose it to be proved, Mr. ised to those who should continue in the service half pay W. said, that Baily had served to the close of the war, for life, or a commutation of five years' whole pay. This the question would still arise whether he was entitled to man had done so, and therefore it was in the nature of a interest. This question was a general one, entitled to a promise-in the nature of a debt. This man had never full and dispassionate consideration, and although the applied for payment until 1830, and he received his five Senate had heretofore decided in favor of paying interest, years' whole pay. "In 1834, he says the interest would he thought the subject ought to be re-examined. Mr.be convenient-I'll take it." The principle would bankW. could not see on what principle interest should be rupt any Government on earth. No Government could paid. stand it. The applicant had received his pay during the war, and, in 1830, he had received the amount of five years' pay in lieu of half pay for life, and now came for interest. So far as money was concerned, the Government had done all that could be done. Large sums had been paid by Government to revolutionary soldiers in the State of Virginia. The money was paid by Congress, but no interest was allowed. The sum to be paid must be immense, and therefore the scrutiny into the propriety of the principle ought to be accurate. Mr. BELL said it was on the principle that the five years' half pay, in lieu of half pay for life, was left optional with the claimants. Mr. WHITE argued that, having postponed the claim for half pay till 1830, and now coming in for five years' full pay, was an abandonment of the former claim, which could not, therefore, be presented as an argument in favor of the payment of interest. Mr. W. alluded to the case of supernumerary officers who did not serve, but were liable to be called out at any time, till the close of the war. The courts had once decided that the claims of such were not valid, which decision, although it was afterwards reversed, served as a hindrance to a due presentation of their claims. Mr. W. considered this as an argument in favor of allowing them interest. Mr. LEIGH said, on this very argument the court of appeals in Virginia had denied the right to interest. Mr. LEIGH said it was known for many years, that precedents and not acts had been acted on. He had been told, on a former occasion, that there were precedents for the payment of interest, and precedents to the contrary. There might be some difficulty in accounting for this difference, but he must be of opinion that one case must have been better canvassed than the other, and that the difference must have arisen from the mode in which the questions were debated. He wished to do justice to this old soldier, and he felt impelled to vote in Mr. WHITE thanked the gentleman for making the case stronger; if such claims could not draw interest, much more should not those claims which nothing hinder-favor of the old gentleman, but was restrained by justice ed from being presented. from giving that vote. There were other cases now depending in that body-claims of Virginia soldiers-whose claims, too, were well established; and yet, although they were some of the best friends he had, he would be compelled to vote against giving them interest. The debate was further continued by Messrs. FRELINGHUYSEN, TYLER, BIBB, CHAMBERS, and KING of Alabama. Mr. TYLER thought the subject one of great interest, and there were a good many claims of this kind from Virginia. Mr. T. held that all who were entitled to commutation, were also entitled to interest, and it had been often so decided by the Senate. Mr. T. instanced several cases, one of which was a recent and strong one, in which twenty-two Senators had voted in favor of paying interest, and only Messrs. WHITE, HILL, and ROBINSON against it. Mr. T. here read over the names of the majority and minority on the question, and said, there was a positive de- YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Bibb, Black, Chambers, Clay, cision pronounced. In February, a variety of questions Hendricks, Kent, King of Alabama, McKean, Poindexfollowed, and were all passed. He instanced several per-ter, Porter, Robbins, Silsbee, Sprague, Tomlinson, Tysons to whom the pay had first been allowed, and were ler.-16. On the question, Shall this bill pass? afterwards allowed the interest. He contended that the NAYS.-Messrs. Benton, Brown, Calhoun, Ewing, decisions were founded in justice. The commutation law Forsyth, Frelinghuysen, Grundy, Hill, King of Georgia, was passed in 1783, and many were paid in 1790. The Leigh, Linn, Mangum, Moore, Morris, Prentiss, Robinthree per cent. stock was established for the purpose of son, Shepley, Smith, Swift, Tipton, White, Wright.-22. giving the soldiers an equivalent for what had been On motion of Mr. FORSYTH, awarded to them. If Baily had subscribed to this stock The Senate adjourned. he would have received an interest all this time, and he ought to be allowed an interest equivalent to what this fund would have given to him. The honorable Senator from Tennessee had said that there was no proof to establish Baily's title. The very facts of the case decided that he was entitled to it. MONDAY, JUNE 2. AUGUSTA (ME.) MEMORIAL. Mr. SPRAGUE presented a memorial from 450 citizens of Augusta, Maine, on the subject of the removal of Mr. SMITH said the question was important, and in-the public moneys, and the recent Executive measures. volved large sums of money; but this was no reason why Mr. S. said that two years ago there was in that town an the money should not be paid, if it was justly due. In ques- overwhelming majority in favor of the present administions of less importance a mistake would be of less con-tration. The paper was drawn up with much ability, and sequence. If he could see any thing in law or equity to set forth the conviction of the memorialists of a general justify the payment of the interest, he would be the first distress now pervading the community. They all comto vote for it; but what were the circumstances? The plained of ruin, misery, and distress, and they had come to case stood altogether upon precedents. Even in courts Congress for relief. They said they did not go to the of justice there were cases wherein the decision being Executive, because that was not the proper tribunal, even |