MAY 4, 1832.] Postages and the Post Office. [SENATE. mass of documents sent in at the close of the session, and administration well pleaded, for it will always have able placed in the hands of the Post Office Committee, of advocates with liberal fees, and whose whole livings, which that Senator was chairman, and there kept until indeed, depend upon the success of their cause. Why, the session had almost expired, before they came to the then, are we not to hear the other side? Is your present hands of our committee. So gross and palpable were administration afraid of the truth? these erasures, that the Postmaster General and his friends It may sometimes occur, I admit, that a Government were confounded, and did not even pretend to justify the printer may use his influence against his patrons. Such act. The lame, extremely lame apology, that this was the independence and self-devotion, however, is scarcely to mistake of the subordinate clerks, was done away entirely be expected, and, if it occurs, it would not long be toleby the fact that these clerks who prepared the abstracts rated. Green, to be sure, did get into the habit of speakreported to the Senate, made them out right, with Barry's ing the truth; and though the administration has, for this, name as the author of the allowances, and it was by high-discharged him, he still is printer to Congress. Yet this er authority that the right name, "Barry," was erased, is scarcely an exception, inasmuch as it is not quite certain and the wrong one, "Bradley," inserted. This charge that Green has turned against a majority of Congress, but of $42,000 of extra allowances in a single month, if it is rather more probable that he and Congress have both justly fixed upon Bradley, would have been quite a suffi-turned against the administration. cient cause for his removal. But Bradley was not guilty. The Senator from Tennessee complains that the repeal This fraudulent paper calculated, and, as he thought, in- of postage commences so soon as the 1st of July. And tended, to cast the charge upon him most unjustly, had why not? If the tax is an unnecessary burden, the sooner been ordered to be printed. Bradley petitioned the Se-it is repealed the better. This period was probably nate that this order should be rescinded, as the publication selected as it is at the close of a quarter, and would, thereof a false charge upon him, under the sanction of the fore, create no inconvenience in settling the accounts. Senate, would destroy his reputation. Upon this petition The Senator very modestly proposes to postpone it until there was a discussion, and the whole of the transaction January, that is, until after the next Presidential election. was exposed, and the Senate, without a division, rescind- But there is not a little danger that it will then be too ed the order to publish. late. Give public opinion a wrong direction until after another election of President, and there is very little hope that you can ever correct it, or restore it to what it was, and always should be. Thus stood Mr. Barry at the end of the last session; the investigation just commenced; the committee forbidden to inquire into any thing which might amount to impeachable matter; a fortuitous development of a fraud, which, if An election of President, and Executive encroachments, coupled with the intent which the act would imply, was a usurpation, and prodigality, concealed from the people by high misdemeanor, an impeachable offence. The Presi-a control of the press--and, I ask, have the people a fair dent had seen all this, but had instituted no inquiry. The chance? Does either House maintain its dignity or its priPostmaster General himself had not requested or intimated vileges, it is assailed by a subsidized press. Does this a wish for an investigation by him or either House of Senate deliberate before it yields its obedience to ExecuCongress; and now, when it is so late in the session, that tive will, there are not wanting individuals who enjoy the his friend is safe from any final result, the Senator from hospitality of these walls, to pervert its act and arraign its Tennessee asks, why we do not pursue the inquiry! If motives, through this press. Is a minister rejected by the such an investigation, thus shackled and thus broken off, Senate for humbling the nation at the foot of a British at so critical a moment, has purified this officer, the Lord have mercy on the impure. throne, the President's corps editorial starts simultaneously, and, with coincidental patriotism, advertises for But Barry took another course to purify himself; he public indignation at the atrocity of a refractory Senate. employed the very machinery of which we have been Does the judiciary venture to perform its duty regardless speaking-a pensioned press. Instead of calling on the of the Executive will, the Presidential corps is let loose President to institute an inquiry, or resorting to a judicial to hunt it down. Is your Postmaster General charged tribunal to manifest his innocence, he resorts to the offi- with official acts, which, if proved, would render him uncial; and no sooner are the backs of the Senators turned worthy of confidence, in the midst of the inquiry he apupon him, than the department prepares an ex parte de-peals to the public through a partisan official newspaper, fence, consisting chiefly of denunciations of the witness and scandalizes every one who has had any concern with Bradley, and the minority of the committee; charging the the inquiry. Thus the chief and his chiefs, covered with chairman, myself, and Bradley, as conspirators against the agis of irresponsibility, and sustained and fortified by him, abusing and scandalizing members of a committee holding the source and channels of information, can adof this Senate for attempting to perform a duty assigned vance, do, and maintain, any thing, every thing. There them; and this libel, I presume, was published in the is nothing political, moral, or religious, which might not same Globe of which Shadrach Penn boasted he had re-be successfully assailed and demolished. published "two bushels in one day," and it would be Sir, the Senator himself seems to apprehend the apwell to know whether the pay for this does not consti-proach of evil days, but trusts that some American Cato tute part of the 22,600 dollars which Shadrach has already will come forth in our defence. But this recurrence to received for printing for the department. vernment. Cato is a most unfortunate reminiscence--" A Senator of A principal consideration which should induce this re- Rome, while Rome survived," Cato was all that a Roman peal is, that no paper has ever been able to sustain itself Senator should be. But what could Cato, indeed, what at the seat of Government without the patronage of Go- could a whole Roman Senate, do, after Cæsar's arm had It will, consequently, be always the case, that prostrated in the dust the Temple of Liberty? Cato's unall, or nearly all, which goes from this city, will go through yielding virtue and uncompromising patriotism were exa protected or pensioned press. This repeal may enable crted too late. He had, to be sure, pointed at the cloud a press here to sustain itself without the further patron- which was gathering beyond the Rubicon, and warned the age of the Federal Government. The people may obtain, Senate that it would one day burst upon the city, to by this, one newspaper from this place, which will fear the destruction of their liberty; but they viewed it at a lessly speak the truth, regardless of the frowns or smiles distance, regardless of the danger. The plausible, sucof power. Suppose it to be a party or opposition paper, cessful, ambitious Cæsar pressed on to the accomplishwill an honest and patriotic administration shrink from a ment of his object. "Phiarsalia gave him Rome--Egypt free investigation, or be unwilling that the people shall had next received his yoke--and the whole Nile was Chear both sides? We shall always hear the cause of every | sar's." What could Cato do' What did he do? He held VOL. VIII-57 899 SENATE.] GALES & SEATON'S REGISTER Bank Report.-Stephen Pleasanton.--Post Office. [MAY 7, 1852. He saw out to the last, and then took himself off. Would the Se- members of the committee against it, and three in its fa. So that, in fact, the committee nator carry the parallel further? The tragical death of vor, and the other member had declared that his acquiesc Cato was succeeded by the more tragical assassination of ence was not in consequence of his concurrence in all Cæsar. The spectre in the dream, who promised to meet the views of the report. Brutus at Philippi, had too fatally fulfilled her promise. were divided half and half. There was also a counter reThe triumvirate had met, and parcelled out the empire, port expected, which it was desirous to append. He thought that none of the report and each had his proscription list allowed, and the streets there was a distinction between the report, and the report of Rome flowed, consequently, with her richest blood. and documents. Mark Antony had been subdued chiefly by the charms should go abroad, unaccompanied by the documents. As of a woman. Octavius, left without a rival, reformed the the chairman of their committee was now absent, he would The question was put on this motion, and decided in the Senate, and with them subdued the people, and then be- move to lay the resolution on the table. came "Cæsar Augustus" their master. affirmative—yeas 21, nays 15. Is this parallel prophetic? Is the time coming when we shall have our Cato, our Cæsar, our Brutus, and the catastrophe, and our triumvirate with the proscription and partition? Are we to have our Pharsalia and Philippi? Is the last rival to find an Actium here? And, at last, is some American Octavius to modify this body to his liking, and, with a Senate at his heels, subdue the people and become our Augustus? Surely, sir, the allusion to Cato, and the signs of the times, induce thoughts not very exhilarating, and I therefore will not indulge in further reflections awakened by that Senator's allusion. Let us do all we can to preserve the sources and channels of instruction correct and pure, that the people may understand their rights, and know how to preserve them, and leave the event to Him who rules the destinies of nations. [The above remarks were delivered, in portions, on three different days, but are given here entire.] The Senate adjourned to Monday. Stephen PLEASANTON. The bill for the relief of Stephen Pleasanton [Fifth Auditor of the Treasury, making him an allowance for extra services, in acting as Solicitor of the Treasury] was then read a third time; and on the question of its passage, the The passage of the bill was opposed in some observa yeas and nays were ordered, on the call of Mr. MARCY. tions from Mr. MARCY, Mr. SMITH, and Mr. BUCKNER; and advocated by Mr. GRUNDY, Mr. FRELING[It was contended by the opponents of the bill that these HUYSEN, Mr. CLAYTON, and Mr. WHITE. principle, the adoption of which would fill the Senate payments for extra services was the introduction of a new public officer receiving three thousand dollars a year was chamber with applicants for similar recompense; that a bound to undertake any duties which might be imposed upon him; that the Third Auditor had performed a varie ty of extraordinary services, and had never called for extraordinary recompense; and that the applicant, in this case, performed these extra services by means of clerks, who were sufficiently paid. On the other side, the ground taken was that no man was expected to perform more than reasonable service; that it was absurd to expect the the purposes of the Government; that it would be unreaexclusive devotion of all the energies of soul and body to and they had no right to expect it from others; that the sonable to expect such devotion from members of Congress, extra duties were performed by the applicant when other Mr. BROWN spoke of the great importance of the re-officers were enjoying the luxury of repose; that the same port, and the necessity of supplying the people with it. The question was then put, and the motion for 5,000 was negatived--yeas 16, nays 19. MONDAY, MAY 7. BANK REPORT. The Senate took up a resolution submitted by Mr. BENcopies of the report of TON Some days ago, to print the committee appointed by the House of Representatives to proceed to Philadelphia and investigate the affairs of the Bank of the United States. Mr. BENTON then moved to fill the first blank with the number 5,000. this bill granted, had now to be performed at a cost of services, for which five hundred dollars a year were by more than five thousand dollars a year; that the letters and Mr. BENTON then moved the number 3,000. in which he performed those duties, filled six thousand Mr. POINDEXTER said that he would assign as a rea-instructions issued by the applicant during the ten years son for his voting against 5,000, that he regarded the refolio pages; and that he had postponed his claim for no port as involving no great principle whatever. He thought other reason than that he would not provoke the jealousy that its facts and details were of a nature to render them The question on the passage of the bill being taken, was unimportant in a public point of view. As to the parti- of other officers of the Government.] decided as follows: cular administration of the affairs of the bank, the stockYEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Benton, Clay, Clayton, Dudley, holders had, in his opinion, much more interest in that The examination seemed to be Ellis, Ewing, Frelinghuysen, Grundy, Holmes, Knight, matter than the people. little else than an investigation of private accounts keptin Miller, Naudain, Poindexter, Prentiss, Robbins, Ruggles, What was it to the public whether a hun-Silsbee, Sprague, Tazewell, Tyler, Waggaman, White, Wilkins.-24. the institution. He should therefore vote tinue others. Mr. EWING said that he had no great objection to the POST OFFICE. Mr. HOLMES continued the observations which he commenced on Friday, in support of the amendment of fered by Mr. BIBB, to abolish the postage on newspapers, (as given above.) Before he had finished his remarks, he gave way to a motion to adjourn; and The Senate adjourned. MAY 8, 9, 1832.] TUESDAY, MAY 8. Public Lands.--Newspaper Postage. A resolution offered yesterday by Mr. Foot, requesting the President to cause to be prepared, and laid before the Senate at the commencement of the next session, a plan for reorganizing the Treasury Department, so as to simplify the mode of settling accounts, and reduce the number of clerks, &c. was taken up, and agreed to. PUBLIC LANDS. Mr. DICKERSON then rose for the purpose of carrying into effect the notice he gave on Friday last; and moved that the Senate now proceed to the consideration of the bill to provide for the distribution of the proceeds of the public lands. Mr. SMITH expressed a hope that, as the Senate was nearly empty, the gentleman from New Jersey would postpone his motion. Mr. DICKERSON consented. [SENATE, Mr. DICKERSON said his only object to-day was to ascertain whether the Senate would refer the report of the Committee on Manufactures to any other committee, and then to fix an early day for the consideration of the matter. If the coming in of gentlemen should, to-day, be time enough to give him an opportunity to renew his motion today, he should do so; but, if not, he gave notice that he should make his motion to-morrow. Mr. HAYNE stated that the best way of expediting the bills which were the subject of consideration, was to observe the rule not to take up the general orders every day until one o'clock. Had this rule been strictly acted on from the commencement, there would have been certainly one-half of the private docket extinguished. Here the conversation dropped. The CHAIR then proceeded to take up the general orders in succession. The bill to provide for the appointment of a recorder of the General Land Office coming up, was opposed. The object of the bill is to constitute an officer to sign the land patents, instead of requiring the signature of the President of the United States, as heretofore. Mr. CLAY said it appeared to him to be very important that the Senate should proceed, without further delay, to the despatch of that part of the public business which was to be disposed of before the adjournment of Congress. This was one of those important measures on which the prompt action of Congress was necessary. There were three subjects on which Congress was bound to act-the tariff--the bank-and the public lands; all these ought to be disposed of before the adjournment. Of his intention to call up to-day the bill now named, the chairman of the Committee on Manufactures had given notice on Friday [The bill was opposed on the ground that the duties last; and, if he was now to consent to withdraw his mo- could be performed by a clerk, if the President was untion, he hoped that he would fix an early day to take it up able to go through the patents with sufficient rapidity; but for consideration and discussion. He would have wished to that it was a dangerous power to place in the hands of any see the motion prevail at this time; and he was sorry that the other than the President, who alone should have the chairman of the Committee on Public Lands was not now power to transfer the eminent domain. It was alleged, on in his place. That Senator was usually very punctual in the other side, that the sales of lands had increased from his attendance, and some unexpected circumstance had six hundred thousand dollars to three millions; that the probably detained him from his seat this morning. Should business could not be done without additional aid, and the chairman of the Committee on Manufactures now that, whether the officers did their duty or not, the work withdraw his motion, he hoped it would be accompanied was not done.] row. "And it shall be the duty of the said recorder to attach to each patent a plat designating the boundaries, natural and artificial, of the land described in the patent." On motion of Mr. POINDEXTER, the bill was then laid on the table. by a notice that he should repeat his motion on to-mor- An amendment was moved by Mr. POINDEXTER to He repeated his desire that an early day might be insert the words— appointed to go into the subject, for the purpose of discussion. He hoped the Senate would consent either to take up the subject of the bill to reduce the duties on imported articles, or the other bill, to reduce the duties on protected articles. He trusted to see the Senate show. ing a disposition to take up these bills. He was indifferent as to the order in which they might be taken up, but he hoped they would be called up in succession. NEWSPAPER POSTAGE. The Senate then resumed the consideration of the bill continue others. to establish certain post offices and post roads, and to disThe question being on the amendment offered by Mr. BIBB, to abolish the postage on newspapers. amendment, (as given above.) Mr. HOLMES concluded his remarks in favor of the Mr. Barry's management of the department. Mr. BIBB then commenced some observations, in which There was but little time left to act on these subjects. It was almost impossible to keep Congress together in the warm weather. Nearly six months had elapsed since the commencement of the session, and nothing had been done; and, if any member was prepared to say what would be done, he must express his own perfect ignorance of the matter. He hoped that the Senate would take up one of the leading topics and act on it, while the House would act on another; and thus the rule would be avoided of both he advocated the policy of his amendment, and insisted Houses acting on the same subject at the same time. He expressed his willingness to sit five or six hours every day, diminution of revenue which would be occasioned by it. on the ability of the Post Office Department to sustain the to get through this business; and even to sit on Saturdays, At the same time, he defended the Postmaster General fatigued as the Senate was at the close of the week, to get from the attacks which had been made on his administra through the mass of private bills which had accumulated on their hands to an alarming extent, so as to leave the tion of the post office; and passed a high eulogy on his other days of the week free for these important subjects. Thus Congress would be able to fulfil the expectations of the people, and to bring to a speedy termination a session already extended to an unreasonable length. Mr. SMITH suggested the propriety of fixing some particular day when the subject would be taken up at 12¦ o'clock. If members were not then in their seats, the fault would be their own. Mr. GRUNDY expressed a hope that these important intellectual and moral worth. Before he had finished his remarks, he gave way to a motion to adjourn. On motion of Mr. POINDEXTER, the Senate then adjourned. WEDNESDAY, MAY 9. The bill for the relief of John F. Lewis was then taken up. [This was a bill to refund the amount of duties paid on certain articles which were ordered before the applicant SENATE.] PUBLIC LANDS. knew of the passage of the tariff of 1828, and which it ject, and to give to the Senate a written report of their was too late to countermand, after he possessed that opinions. Why were they not to be allowed such opportunity knowledge.] ? The Senator from Kentucky had instructed the Mr. SILSBEE moved an amendment to the bill, making Committee on Public Lands what they might do, and what it so general in its operation as to cover some fifteen or they ought to do. He was obliged to the Senator from twenty similar cases, comprising duties to the amount of Kentucky for his instructions. But the committee reseventy-five thousand dollars. quired no such light to show them the extent of their The amendment met with some opposition; and, on mo-powers. He was not inclined to go back for the purpose tion of Mr. KING, the bill was laid on the table, and the of looking into the reasons for sending this subject to the amendment ordered to be printed. Committee on Manufactures. He understood it to have been for the purpose of connecting all the subjects of a revenue character in the hands of the same committee. It Mr. DICKERSON, pursuant to the notice which he had been expected that the committee would amalgamate gave yesterday, moved to take up the bill to provide for the subjects in their report; instead of which, they had the distribution for a limited term of the proceeds of the made three distinct reports, one on each branch of the inpublic lands. He stated that his only object, at present, quiry. He saw that the report was calculated to do much was to dispose of the pending motion of the Senator from mischief. He saw in it much that was false in reasoning. Alabama to refer the bill to the Committee on Public The immense calculations made on the amount of the proLands. Should that motion be negatived, the bill might ceeds of the sales of lands must strike at once as ridiculous. be taken up for discussion on an early day in the next week. There was no discrimination between the qualities of the Mr. KING said he should not have risen to detain the Se-lands. But he would not here go into any discussion of nate on this question, but for a remark which had fallen that matter. He hoped that an opportunity would be from the Senator from Kentucky, when the subject was given to the Committee on Public Lands to present a fair before the Senate on a former day. The Senator from view of the subject. Without meaning to impute unfairKentucky had stated that he [Mr. K.] had taken fire at ness to the report of the Committee on Manufactures, he the suggestion that this bill ought to be brought up for could not but regard it as a one-sided thing; and he dediscussion; and that he had denounced the report of the sired an opportunity for the Committee on Public Lands to Committee on Manufactures as unfair. In making this present the views on the other side. statement, the Senator from Kentucky had not done him justice. He certainly had not taken fire at the suggestion; but he had stated that he was not prepared to act on the bill, until it should have been referred to the Committee on Public Lands. The Senator from Kentucky had also charged him with applying the term "unfairness" to the report. Mr. CLAY inquired if the motion was to refer both the report and the bill, or simply the bill. Mr. KING replied that he had divided the question, and confined the motion to the reference of the bill. Mr. CLAY said the proposition then was to refer the bill without the report. He felt extremely happy to learn that the gentleman from Alabama had determined to exHe had stated that it was calculated to make an erro-hibit no feeling on this subject, but to keep himself free neous impression on the public mind, on a subject which from all warmth or excitement. With equal truth, he was of general importance, but which was vitally interest- could declare that he had none. This was a great subing to the State which he represented. He had certainly ject of national interest, and, in its consideration, every not intended to charge the Committee on Manufactures thing like feeling ought to be eradicated; every thing like with any intention to circulate erroneous opinions; but party banished from the walls of the Senate. he bad considered that their local situation, their peculiar subject interesting, not only to the Senate, and not only habits of thinking, and their knowledge of the subject, to the people of our time, but it was one in the well-disdid not qualify them to come to conclusions, the accuracy position of which posterity would have an interest for of which ought not to be disputed. When he had heard hundreds of years to come. It was a this report described by members of the Senate as most The proposition now was to refer the bill to the Comable, most enlightened, and most conclusive, he had only mittee on Public Lands. He must be permitted again to asked that it might be referred to the Committee on Pub-advert to the history of the original reference. When lic Lands, who were conversant with the whole subject, the proposition was made to refer the matter to the Comfor their examination, inasmuch as the Committee on mittee on Manufactures, every member of that committee Manufactures were less intimately acquainted with it. earnestly protested against such reference. The refer If the arguments were so able that they could not be an-ence, however, was ordered by the Senate, against the swered, could not be refuted, or proved to be erroneous, wishes of the committee. The Senator from Alabama its reference to the Committee on Public Lands could be was one of the majority by whom the reference was of productive of no ill effect on the report. On the contrary, dered. The Committee on Manufactures had, at the its accuracy would be the more strongly established in the time, urged that they were not sufficiently acquainted, public mind. nor familiar, with the subject; that the Committee on He was not disposed to give way to feeling in any re- Public Lands were more conversant with the subject in marks he might make on this subject. His local position all its details, and that it would be more wise to refer it to might justify him in the exhibition of some feeling, as it that committee. The incongruity of the subject with rendered it difficult for him to avoid it. He hoped the the duties of the Committee on Manufactures was further Senate would not refuse the Committee on Public Lands urged, as well as the extent of business, and the vast and an opportunity to present the matter before the country various details of the branches of manufactures which had in such view as they might believe to be right and just. been committed to them. All, however, was urged in He did not believe that the Senator from Kentucky would vain. The reference was made to them, in spite of every refuse him this opportunity. He had no doubt that the thing. Yet it was now alleged that the Committee on Committee on Manufactures honestly entertained the views Manufactures had not sufficient knowledge of the subwhich they had spread through their report; and that ject. Why was not sufficient weight allowed to that ob they would not be willing to suffer the country to believe jection when the reference was originally made? Why, if that they would shrink from an examination of them. He that committee were incompetent to present a project thought the Senate should not take up the question for having a just bearing on the interests of all the States consideration until the Committee on Public Lands should why was the subject pressed upon them? why was not have been allowed the opportunity to examine the sub-weight allowed to the objection at the proper time? It MAY 9, 1832.] Public Lands. [SENATE. was very true that most of the Committee on Manufac- months ago, the Senate had sent to the Committee on tures had not, at that time, the adequate knowledge. But Manufactures, contrary to their wish, this agitating subthe gentleman from Alabama should do them the justice ject; that this committee had taken it up, assiduously exto believe that they afterwards examined the subject in all amined, and made their report; that an objection was its parts. For one, he had only found it necessary to re-made to the argument by a gentleman from one of the fer to certain reports, and to a few laws, to become pos-new States; and that now the course which was proposed sessed of all the necessary knowledge. The committee at first, and which the committee had originally declared went into this laborious investigation, and the report to be the correct one, was adopted? Would gentlemen which has been made is the result of their labors. Had be content to let their names stand on the record of yeas any error been detected in the facts contained in the re-and nays in support of such inconsistency? port? Had the deeds of cession been incorrectly cited? The Senator from Alabama had charged him with a Had there been erroneous references to the report? Had desire to instruct the Committee on Public Lands in their the laws been incorrectly described? Was the informa- duties. He felt himself incapable of instructing any one, tion received from the treasury inaccurate? These were much less of instructing that committee. He hoped that, the data on which the report was founded; and it was not when expressing his opinions in his place, he was not to pretended that any of these were inaccurate. It was not be made liable to the charge that he was endeavoring to charged that any of the facts were inaccurate. It was instruct others. What he had said was simply this--had the reasoning, the argument of the report, which was ob- the Senator an amendment to the bill, let him prepare it, jected to. After a committee of the Senate had made a have it printed, and move it when the bill should come report, containing facts and arguments, it would be un-up for consideration. Did the Senator wish to present a exampled to refer that report to another committee for detailed and an argumentative report? He had said he the purpose of obtaining another argumentative and believed it was competent for the Committee on Public amendatory report, unless some defects in the former Lands to make such a report without a special reference could be pointed out. of the bill. Had they a different scheme to propose, let The gentleman from Alabama had designated some of them propose it. After they should have made their rethe errors of the report as gross errors, and had termed port, he would give them his vote for the printing of it. one of them "ridiculous;" and what is this statement But he did not consider the course which was now indiwhich he has called "ridiculous?" It relates to the amount cated to be the proper one. of the public sales of the public lands. In what respect There had already been presented to the other House is this statement ridiculous? He might be able to com- a report of the Committee on Public Lands, presenting a prehend, if the Senator from Alabama would be pleased different view of the subject, an extra number of which to point out. He had charged the statement as ridiculous. had been ordered to be printed, and connected with this This charge did not very well comport with the profes-report. Would not that answer the purpose of the Sesion of calmness which the Senator had made at the com-nator from Alabama? Would not the argument of the mencement of his speech. Now, the fact was that the Committee on Public Lands of the other House be suffidata on which this statement was made, were the estimates cient to correct the reasoning of this wicked report? But of the Secretary of the Treasury himself. So that, if there suppose that a third report were to be made, would even was error there, it was error which originated with the that be found satisfactory? Would it not still be found necesSecretary. In reference to the principle, the precise sary to send the subject to another committee, to obtain amount of sales was unimportant. It was no matter whe-another report upon the conflicting reports of the former ther the sales in one year amounted to three millions, to committees? Might not the Senate be thus kept moving two millions, a million and a half, or a million. The prin- in a circle, without finding any termination to the business? ciple, in every case, would be applicable. The amount The proper course, in his view, to be pursued, was, at a of sales would necessarily vary according to the popula-proper time--say next week--to take up the bill for the tion, to the amount of public lands in the market, and va- purpose of receiving any amendments, or a report of a rious other considerations; and any statement made on the subject must be corrected by the practical results of experience. The amount of the proceeds had also been taken from the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, and the estimates of the Commissioner of the General Land Office. Not an important fact connected with the subject--the amount of sales, amount of proceeds, quantity of lands in market, quantity of lands unsold, or any other fact, but was taken from authentic documents. different scheme, if such should be offered; to print the amendments or report, to deliberate on them, to go at once into the consideration and discussion of the different projects, and come to a decision on the subject. He hoped the motion which had been made by the Senator from Alabama would not prevail; and as he considered the subject to be one of the highest magnitude, and wished that his name might be recorded on the question, in order to show his course to those to whom he was responsible, as well as to those who might come after him, he would not take his seat without asking that the question be taken by yeas and nays. The reference, then, was not desired for the purpose of correcting facts, but with a view to report a counter argument. The reference of a subject to a committee, in the first instance, is generally made for the purpose of Mr. HOLMES said that if he could see any advantage presenting facts in the form of a report; or, when a sub-to be derived from the reference of the bill to the Comject has been discussed, to examine, and make such mittee on Public Lands, he would vote for it. But what changes as may conform to the opinion of the Senate as expressed in the discussion. But here there had been no examination. Did the Senator from Alabama desire that the lands should be relinquished to the States, that the price should be reduced? What plan had he to suggest? It was incumbent on him to point out some defects in the report, before he made his motion of reference. good was to result from it? He was a member of the Committee on Public Lands, and he had voted against sending the subject to the Committee on Manufactures. He did not believe that they would shrink from the examination, but he thought it did not properly belong to the duties of that committee. But the Senate had decided to send it to the Committee on Manufactures, and he For himself he was entirely indifferent as to the course had bowed to the decision. It went thither. But had to be pursued, and so, he believed, was every member of not the Committee on Public Lands the same subject bethe committee. But he would put it to the Senate whe- fore them? Was not so much of the President's message ther a proper regard for its own dignity and consistency as related to the disposition of the public lands referred would permit it to sanction such a procedure. How to that committee? The Committee on Public Lands would the record read to the world, that, two or three then had the subject before them; and not only the gene |