courfe could not be easily led to entertain doubts of the fincerity of his Majefty's Minifters with refpect to the conceffions they demanded, were they not in a certain degree warranted by the dilatory conduct of Government on that very important occafion, and by the want of publicity and difpatch, to give them fatisfaction. He fhould remind their Lordships, that he had, about two years ago, ftated the neceffity of reformation in the Navy, but his fuggeftions had been unattended to. He was juftified in declaring, on the authority of the ableft and most enlightened men in Ireland, that that country was then placed in a fituation of the most imminent danger. He had in his pocket the refolutions lately entered into on that interefting fubject by the Gentlemen of the Bar of Dublin, than whom there did not any where exift a more impartial, more independent, or more enlightend fet of men. It was not yet publithed in this country, and though he should not now treipais on their Lordships by a perulal of it, he would earneftly recommend it to their future serious attention. They ftated, in the most energetic and admirable language, the vaft perils to which that oppreffed nation was subjected. Since he had alluded to thefe Refolutions, he was concerned to find that a Noble Duke (the Duke of Portland) was not then in his place, as he might, from having the fubject of the Refolutions recommended to his confideration, reap confiderable benefit from attending to them. But perhaps the Noble Duke was employed in a more interesting manner. The Noble Marquis declared he was convinced he could not exprefs in a manner too forcible, the dangers likely to arife from the meafures puriued by his Majefty's Minifters with respect to Ireland. They were evidently laying the rooted principle of animofity between both kingdoms, by fending over troops thither; and here he should recommend to his Majefty's Ministers the advice given by Mr. Neckar to Kings on the fubject of coercion. That wife Statefman ftrongly advises them not to provoke the people; to avoid, with the utmoft caution, coercion of every kind, and to adopt conciliatory measures, even in cafes of the most preffing nature, as the most effectual means to make their fubjects comply with their juft views, and reconcile them to a state of peace and tranquillity; but the French Court, like the English Cabinet refufed making popular Reforms till it was too late. Buonaparte had unquestionably been the most formidable enemy this country had to contend with. That celebrated General had over-run a vaft extent of country, and reduced upwards of two millions of people, and who had been the cause of thofe fucceffes? Certainly the Noble Lord (Grenville) who had provoked hoftilities, and who, by the fame mode of reafoning, had even outdone Buonaparte; for the French had, by his friendly friendly affiftance, not only added to their territory three times the extent of territory acquired by Buonaparte, but had alfo experienced an increase of three times the number of their popu lation. The Noble Lord might, therefore, be justly entitled to have a statue erected to him in the Pantheon, for achievements in favour of the French Republic, and Buonaparte himfelf could not be fuppofed to envy fuch a measure, to the merit of which he was bound, both as a friend to his country, and an admirer of heroifm, to fubfcribe. Lord Grenville declared his conviction, that the melancholy tone of diftrefs which was imputed to the country began and ended with the Noble Lords who fupported the Motion. He had particularly forborne to enter into the confideration of the queftion, that other perfons might decide on the merits of it, rather than that he himself should be forced to enter into a juftification of his own conduct, and of those with whom he had the honour to co-operate. He would candidly admit, that were the queftion to be carried in the affirmative, it would give him. the most serious and heartfelt concern. To be deprived of the power of rendering every fervice within the fcope of his abilities, both to the country and to his moft Gracious Mafter, would indeed be the heaviest misfortune he could poffibly experience. He therefore entertained the moft fanguine hopes that the queftion would be negatived, not certainly on account of any regard or folicitude about his own perfonal views or eafe, for the prefent time was not fit for fuch confiderations; but that he might remain in a situation that would enable him to give his hearty and efficient support to the measures of the Executive Government for the benefit and happinefs of the community. To be an indifferent fpectator, would have been truly an afflicting thought to him, but to be an active sharer at a crifis of fuch magnitude and moment, would operate on his mind as a most confoling and fatisfactory reflection. If in fact, his Majesty's Minifters had ever opposed thofe noxious political principles which aimed at the subverfion of all regular Governments, they were at the prefent moment more vigorously called upon to continue with additional alacrity and firmness that conftitutional oppofition, Since he had been thus induced to offer himself to their Lordfhip's attention, he fhould make a few remarks on what had paffed in the courfe of the debate. The Noble Duke, in deploring the calamities of the prefent war, and in enumerating the diftreffes produced by it, had merely ftated arguments which would apply with equal force against the profecution of any war whatever. Such a mode of reafoning might, on principles of a fimilar nature, go against the fyftem of warfare altogether, however juft, howEver called for by the most imperious neceffity. But did the Noble Noble Duke's argument apply to the prefent war, which had not only been commenced on the abfolute ground of neceflity, but had been approved of by a vast majority of the country, and profecuted through all its various stages with the concurring and moft decifive approbation of Parliament? He believed, that the Noble Duke was the firft man that ever proceeded to move any vote of cenfure against Minifters without giving them some previous notice of it. But he had chofen to act a part peculiar to himself alone, and had thought proper to ground his accufa tion on the access of expences, which, from the nature of them, it was totally impoffible to forefee or to provide for by certain eftimates. In his former Motion upon the Bank bufinefs, he had entered into a variety of calculations, every one of which were at the time refuted; but the Noble Duke had contrived again to introduce them into the prefent Motion, and expected that Minifters were to answer him from memory. He was ready to admit now, as he had upon a former occafion, that the expences had, in fome inftances, gone much beyond the eftmates; but these were under particular circumftances, and in cafes which it was impoffible to forefce or prevent. Noble Lords were very much in the habit of affuming as granted, any propofition that favoured their arguments. They feemed to confider it as a point admitted, that we had derived no benefit from our Alliances, an affertion to which he could never accede. With refpect to the fubfidies made to Pruffia, on which a Noble Marquis (Marquis of Lanfdowne) had been pointedly fevere, he fhould merely obferve, that without any allufion to the various benefits that might be derived from that measure, there was one on which men the moft oppofite in political fentiments. could fcarcely think differently, and that confifted in its being the best mode of hiring troops, for the public fervice. With rel pect to our alliance with Auftria, could the Noble Marquis contend that we had not by the wifdom of that proceeding, gained, great and fucceffive advantages to the real interests of the nation. The Noble Lords confidered it as a fettled point, that the removal of Minifters would be grateful to the public mind; would they alfo affirm that it would be equally grateful to the public mind, if they themselves were to occupy the place of. Adminiftration? The conduct of his Majefty's Minifters had fucceeded in preventing that anarchy to which the language of those who opposed them ftrongly tended. He had, for his own part, often heard that revolutionary ideas and principles had made a confiderable progrefs in the country, but to what bold lengths they extended, he had until that night little conception. What, he would afk, was the conduct of the fame Noble Lords, with refpect to the prefent fituation of Ireland?, they rafhly. propofed propofed a direct interference in the internal concerns of that kingdom, after a moft unqualified recognition of its independence. If their Lordships had a right to interfere in any case, that cafe could only confift in an interference to protect and maintain the rights of his Majefty, and of the Parliament of Ireland, and if the government here had been able to fend any force for the purpofe of faving Ireland from confusion, rapine and defolation, fuch a conduct was, in his opinion, a fresh caufe for unity and amity between both nations. A Noble Marquis had, in the warmth of expreffion, called Ireland an oppreffed country. But what was the nature of that oppreffion? Was it oppreffion in the mind of the Noble Marquis, to fuffer the legiflature of that country to make laws for itself? It was indeed a very ftrange topic to bring forward, after all the various arguments which had occurred on it, and after all the experience which their Lordships muft have had refpecting the nature of it. But that was not all---the Noble Marquis profeffed to talk of conciliation, and feemed defirous to have it confidered as his favourite theme; yet while he dealt in profeffions he in reality fought out with uncommon industry every principle of latent evil, and fhewed his rooted defire to fruftrate the great end of conciliation.---When, therefore, he confidered the prefent fituation of public affairs, and turned his thoughts to all the confequences likely to refult from a bafe and fervile compliance, with the leading doctrines of the day, he fhould boldly fay, that his Majesty's Minifters would not tamely defert that honourable poft which they had hitherto filled, by directing all their efforts to the prefervation of the Conftitution, and the permanent happiness of the people. He fhould think it extremely unfit for him to draw a comparison between his own capacity and that of any of the Noble Lords who uniformly oppofed his Majefty's Minifters, but on the ground of zeal for the real interefts of the State, and of a decided and unalterable refolution to oppofe by the moft unwearied exertions, and the most vigorous efforts, thofe principles which ftruck at the very exiftence of the Conftitution, and which went to the establishment of anarchy; he would maintain, that he was inferior to none. A Reform of Parliament was a chief measure propofed by Noble Lords, and to that measure he fhould give a plain anfwer. He had ever oppofed that innovation as a complete alteration of the Conftitution. He had even oppofed a temporate Reform, but that offered for difcuffion was above all others peculiarly objectionable. It went to pluck up by the roots every right planted by the Conftitution--it went to deftroy the moit eflential principles of liberty and property---it went to establish dif tricts, or to characterize them more properly, departments, throughout the whole country, and as one Member could only represent one department, it went to change every election over the kingdom into the nature of a Westminster Election, with the benefits of which every one of their Lordships was neceffarily acquainted. Parliament, he would again and again contend, did not poffefs fo unlimited, fo extraordinary a power, as to authorize fuch a Reform. Lord Grenville concluded by entreating their Lordships to reflect, that if they once opened the flood-gate to innovation, the torrent of anarchy would spread fo forcibly and fo wide, that it would not be in the power of their Lordfhips, by oppofing their feeble hands as a barrier to deftruction, to prevent the Conftitution from being overwhelmed in general ruin. The Duke of Leeds believed the majority of the people were enemies to French principles, and in favour of the prefent Miniftry; but still it behoved Administration to confider how far the patience of the people would extend under their various loffes and difappointments. His Grace faid, he had been a fupporter of this war at its commencement; he thought it neceffary and unavoidable; it had proved unfortunate, but he denied that it was difgraceful to the nation. Lord Grenville explained. He faid if the Motion merely went to the removal of his Majefty's Minifters, he should not have risen to oppofe it; many others might undoubtedly be found equally able, and a great majority who would fupport thofe Minifters who acted on the fame leading principles; but the ground of his prefent oppofition was, becaufe he believ ed in his confcience that the object of fome Noble Lordswas to promote, not a change of men, but a Revolution in the country. Earl Moira denied that the Motion was of a perfonal nature, and vindicated the Noble Duke who made it on conftitutionalgrounds. He, for one, was not difpofed to afcribe to Minifters that profperity which arofe from the energy of its Merchants; their genius and enterprizing fpirit would ever carry the country to the height of profperity, if Adminiftration did not put bars in their way. It was true, the Motion was meant to inflict apenalty upon Miniftry, for the fubverfion of our credit, the dif appointment of our hopes, and the failure of the objects of the The Noble Secretary of State had oppofed the Motion for fear the Conftitution fhould be overturned, "but," faid Lord Moira, "I fhall ever object to this mode of argument; it goes to identify the prefent Minifters with the Conftitution of the country, and to link the confidence of the country in its own refources, and in the frame and form of its Government; an ar war. gument |