MAY 2, 1834.]

Proceeds of Public Lands.

[SENATE.

a year before it passed, and he had then made it the sub was not presented to the President until the last moment, ject of a specific message, to mislead the judgments of and when, from the very nature of his duties, it was absothe people. It was a measure of immense importance to lutely impossible for him to give even the slightest exthe new States, and the course pursued by the President amination to so important a measure, much less to prewas most extraordinary; it was not such a message as he pare his objections in time to send them in. Now, he had a right to present, because we could not originate would appeal to the Senator from Kentucky, whether it any new measure on it. Why should the new States ask was just to censure the President for withholding this for appropriations for public improvements and educa- bill for the few moments then remaining of the session, tion, when they set their faces against the measure which when he must either act on it instantly without examinawould effect it. tion, or wait until the next session, to send in his objecMr. BLACK said that he was not willing that his vote tions. The Senator also thought that, had the bill been on the printing should be made the test of his vote on the returned by the President, that two-thirds of both Houses bill. The bill was very important as relates to the great would have been found to pass on it. Now, was the principle involved in it, as well as the great objects to Senator correct, as to the facts of the case? Was it which it looks. He had voted against the former bill, possible that two-thirds could have concurred in passing and his opinions being unchanged, he should vote against this bill, if it had been returned, when the Journals of the present, unless material modifications were introdu- this House contradicted it most conclusively? The bill ced. But his opposition was not on the ground assumed was passed by a majority of only three; and what grounds in the veto message. As to plenary powers on the sub- then, had the gentleman for supposing that such a change ject, it was his conviction that Congress possessed them. would have taken place in the opinions of members of He also thought that Congress had been altogether liberal the Senate, in that short space of time, as to give a mato the new States. He was not, therefore, against the jority of two-thirds? It was not even possible that such bill on either of these grounds. His objections were, that a change could have taken place.

the bill distributed the gross, instead of the nett proceeds, The President, (Mr. K. said,) as soon as it was in his leaving the expenses of collections on sales to be defray-power, examined the provisions of this bill, and at. the ed out of the duties on imports. He was altogether op- earliest possible time thereafter, returned it, with his obposed to the idea that the bill was unconstitutional. jections, to Congress. Although it had been several

He could not consent that the question of printing a doc-months before Congress, yet the bill had undergone many ument in reference to an important law should be made and important changes before it finally passed, and at too the test of opinion as to the principles of the bill itself. late an hour for the President to become acquainted with He should vote for the motion to print an extra, number. them. How could the President pass upon this bill, until Mr. PORTER said that he was surprised at the discus- it came to him in its proper shape? and although he sion which had taken place to-day. He should not have might have been acquainted with it, as it was originally imagined that the Serate would have spent so much time introduced, how could he have prepared his objections in discussing the subject of printing, when it had such a before hand, to a bill that might be and was so essentially pressure of business on its hands. This was not a ques- altered in its details? The President, at the very first tion whether the Senate approved of the report, but moment he possibly could, under that instrument by merely whether the opinions of the committee should be which we all hold our seats in the Senate, returned the given at large to the nation. He thought it necessary bill to Congress, with the reasons why he could not apthat the report should go abroad, in order that they prove of it. The gentleman from Mississippi said, that might learn the opinions of the people in regard to it, be the message of the President was a most extraordinary fore proceeding to legislate on the matter. On referring one, and as the gentleman was so fond of rejecting the to the Journal of the Senate, he had found that, on the President's communications, he supposed he would be 5th of December, 1833, the President sent in his message for rejecting this also. As the gentleman seemed so fond to the Senate, stating that he had vetoed the land bill of finding fault, he thought he should take care that it which had been passed at the previous session, and he should be done in such a way that the people should not gave his reasons at length for that act. He (Mr. P.) per- suppose he acted solely with a fault-finding spirit. The ceived that, on that occasion, the honorable gentleman Senator spoke of the great advantages to be derived to from Alabama [Mr. Moonɛ] moved that 5,000 extra cop- the new States from the adoption of the bill; but he and ies of the message be printed. Now, there appeared to the Senator thought quite differently on the subject. He, have been no opposition made to the motion of the hon- on the contrary, thought the passage of the bill would orable member. Why, then, he would ask, should there produce great disadvantages to the new States. Why, the be any objection to printing the same number of copies sales of the public lands could only produce four millions, of this report? He could not, for his part, see any possi-and how could it produce two millions to the State of ble ground for objecting to this course being taken. The Mississippi? Was the State of Mississippi to get one-half bill, in his opinion, was of as much importance as any of the proceeds of the sales of the public lands? that could come before the Senate. Believing, as he did, Mr. POINDEXTER explained: If five hundred thouthat if the bill should receive the sanction of Congress sand acres of land were granted to the State of Missisit would put an end to conflicting interests of the most sippi, she could have them so located as to produce three delicate nature, he should most heartily record his vote dollars per acre. in favor of the measure.

Mr.KING said he should like to have an opportunity to Mr. KING, of Alabama, said he was not disposed, on examine this document, before he voted on the printing this occasion, to enter into any discussion on the merits of of it. He had great reluctance to withhold information, the bill. At this time, he said it was not either necessary but he must vote against printing so large an edition, unor proper; but he rose for the sole purpose of doing til he had given it some examination. If the gentleman justice to the course of the President of the United States would consent to let the paper lie on the table, he would with regard to the message sent to the Senate, giving his look into it at his earliest opportunity, and if he could reasons why he could not sanction the measure. He was consistently vote for the printing, he would cheerfully surprised that the Senator from Kentucky, [Mr. CLAY,] do so. when adverting to the fact that the bill had not been re- Mr. CLAY said he might have been willing to consent turned by the President at the conclusion of the last to the postponement of the motion to print, if the gentlesession, had cast some censure on him for this omission, man from Georgia had not put his suggestion on the imwhen he and every Senator knew the fact that the bill possible contingency that he might, on examination, conVOL. X.-101

3

There is no such statement.

[MAY 2, 1834.

But to whom

sent to the positions in the report. If the Senate will zance of it. consent to the printing, he will give an opportunity to the could Mr. Monroe have returned the toll bill next people to examine, and give their decision as to the cor- morning? Congress had gone. A bill must be returned, rectness of these positions. The gentleman from Alaba- according to the constitutional provision, or it dies. This ma says that we are a fault-finding set on this side of the is one objection to the conduct of General Jackson. He Senate. If we are, I may truly say that the gentlemen has deprived Congress of their constitutional right. By on the other side are a fault-mending body. I think the withholding it, the President defeats the bill, although the gentleman from Alabama and myself had better change two Houses should be unanimous in its favor. This bill spectacles, as we are about of the same age, and each was gone. It was not well understood at the time; and look out of the other's glasses. We should both read the those who were desirous to act upon it, could not. The message differently. I think the message of the President constitutional limit of ten days, did not apply in this case. was extra constitutional. It was sending us a dead bill, on The object of_that_provision is to prevent Congress, at which we could found no action. If the printing of the their long session, from adjourning for the purpose of demessage had been decided by the consistency of its rea-feating any design of the President to use the veto power; soning, no one would have voted for it. But we on this but it has no reference to the short session. If we examside voted for the extra number of the message. So much ine our statute-book, we shall find that three-fourths of all for our liberality. Although the President sent us a dead the laws passed at the short session are passed on the 2d bill, on which no legislative measure can be founded, we of March, the day before the adjournment of the two propose an answer to his reasons, as able as we can make Houses. The complaint now is, that, on a subject which And what is the liberality of gentleman on the other had been examined by the President, and was well unside? They object to the printing because they think it derstood by him, a bill should have been kept back by will be sending out reasoning which the people will not him, and Congress should thus be deprived of their condetect. I said, if the President gives bad reasons, let stitutional right of passing the bill, the objections of the them go forth, that the people may discover them: if he President to the contrary notwithstanding. reasons well, the people ought to be possessed of his arguments. 1, therefore, was not against the printing.

it.

The gentleman from Alabama says he does not think the lost bill could have been passed by a constitutional majority. I speak it in my place, that I solemnly believe that nearly or quite the constitutional majority could have been obtained for the bill. We only wanted in this House three or four members to make up the constitutional majority; and in the other House the bill was passed by a majority exceeding two-thirds of the number who voted. I do not admit that we, in our practice, are to bind ourselves by those rigid rules which govern in a court of justice.

I am sorry that on a question of printing, I should have been drawn into this discussion. I take it for granted, after the printing of an extra number of the veto message, gentlemen would have had no fears that the reasoning of the President, which it took him nine months to prepare, might not be safely trusted against a report of the Committee of Public Lands, drawn up amidst the pressing business of an unexampled session. He concluded with expressing his regret that the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. MOORE] did not consider himself at liberty to follow the counsels of his own judgment; for he (Mr. C.) was satisfied that the conclusions of the gentleman's mind, if he were free to act upon them, would lead him to sanction the reasoning of the report.

There is another fact. It was currently understood that the President was at the Capitol, examining the bills. Mr. FORSYTH said that he was afraid he should not He is said to have come here with the veto in his pocket, be very liberal if he followed the example of the honorin case the bill should pass. There was a provision in the able Senator from Kentucky. A document had been bill specifying colonization as one of the objects to which sent here from one of the departments some days since, the proceeds were to be applied. This was stricken out and which an honorable member wished to have printed, in the House. The veto is said to have been prepared in but it was laid upon the table, (where it still remained,} reference to that clause, and was rendered inapplicable by on motion of the gentleman from Kentucky. The Senthe striking of it out of the bill. I will tell the member ator was mistaken if he supposed there was any appre from Alabama that I have no proof which would enable hension on the part of honorable Senators to affect his me in a court of law to establish this fact, but I believe it argument. He (Mr. F.) and others, were apprehensive to be true. The bill was brought under the notice of lest the responsibility attaching to the report which had Congress the session before the last, and was passed at just been read, should not rest with those only who supthe last session: it is the practice of the Secretary to send ported it, but with the whole Senate. He therefore in. copies of bills to the President while they are pending. tended to record his vote for the purpose of showing The bill was sent to him the year before the last, and it that he did not approve of it. With respect to the power was a subject of comment in his message. He ought, of the President to give his approbation to a bill passed therefore, to understand the subject sufficiently. The by Congress after his predecessor should have quitted same bill was sent him last session. At what time was it office, it was hardly necessary to argue the question. sent to him? It was sent to him at 5 o'clock of the 2d of But he would say a word or two as to what was his own March, and Congress adjourned the next morning. With judgment in the matter. The honorable Senator seemed all his previous information, and with the bill for nine to suppose that the successor of one President could not hours in his possession, could he not have examined it? put his signature to any legislative enactment which might When the Cumberland road bill, usually called the tolls be left unfinished by his predecessor, and therefore it bill, was returned by Mr. Monroe, he sent it back the would not be obligatory on the people. The constitution, same evening, with a statement that he would transmit he (Mr. F.) would assert, made a bill, sent by either of his reasons at the next session. He afterwards sent a the two Houses of Congress to the President, binding on pamphlet which placed me under the necessity of saying the people of this country, provided he approved of and an unkind thing, considering how sincerely I respected returned it within ten days. Indeed, it would become a him that there was so much of it, that it was difficult to law, without his consent, if he kept it more than ten days find the argument. As to Mr. Madison, he returned the in his possession. The honorable Senator from Kentucky bank bill which was sent to him on the 3d of March, had told the Senate in the most solemn terms, that the on the same evening. The gentleman from Georgia bill of last session, if it had been sent back to the Senate, had alleged that the report stated that the bill ought would have been passed by a constitutional majority. to have been returned on the same evening, because Now, this only showed how prejudiced we could be when the successor of General Jackson could not take cogni-lour wishes were involved in a matter. Let the gentle

MAY 2, 1834.]

Proceeds of Public Lands.

[SENATE.

man examine the votes of those who voted in the nega- Mr. CLAY said, that, with respect to the vote alluded tive, and he (Mr. F.) thought he would find it exceed to by the Senator from Georgia, he would observe that ingly difficult to discover one among them who was ca- there were several absentees on that occasion, some of pable of change. No; they were made of "sterner stuff." whom, he believed, would have voted had they been pres[Here Mr. F. read the names of those Senators who had ent; but he did not choose to go into all the particulars voted in the negative on that occasion.] He should have attending that vote, he rose for another purpose, which much liked to have seen the honorable member pick out was to make one single observation in reply to what the five, which number would be necessary to obtain a con- gentleman had said about the constitutional ten days. stitutional majority, and so pass the bill. The gentleman Now, let us, said he, take those ten days; the consequence had told them further, (though without evidence which then to be drawn from the argument of the gentleman he could produce in a court of justice, if called upon to was, if the ten days run on, notwithstanding the terminaprove the fact,) that the President had come here on the tion of the session, the bill had become a law; or if the 3d of March with a veto message in his pocket. Now successor of the President could approve a bill on the had that been the case, it would only have proved how fourth of March that was passed on the third, he might desirous he was to return the bill. Still the honorable do the same thing on the fifth, and so on to the end of Senator believed that such was the fact, and against such the ten days. He did not, however, concur with the evidence as this on the Journal. Now supposing the case gentleman, and therefore thought the conclusion into be as stated by the honorable member-what did it correct.

prove? Why, merely that the President had taken pre

by adding a clause providing for the printing of 5,000 copies of the second report of the Secretary of the Treas ury on the subject of the removal of the deposites, of December 30, 1833.

Mr. CLAY said this motion was not in order. If the gentleman would move to add 5,000 or 500,000 of the message acted on yesterday, he would give him his vote. Mr. SHEPLEY. What message?

The gentleman tells us, said Mr. C., that if a majority of cisely the course which the gentleman had thought he two-thirds could have been got at the end of the last session, ought to have taken. The President was desirous to re-in consequence of the President's returning the bill, that turn the bill in the form in which it was presented to him: surely the same majority could be had now. He (Mr. C.) it was unsatisfactory, and he sent back the bill, accompa- wished the Senator could make that good. There had nied by a message, giving his reasons why he had vetoed been two or three changes in the Senate since the last it. He (Mr. F.) thought it was very obvious that the session, unfavorable to the measure. There was the SenPresident wished to do himself and the country justice. ator from Maine, [Mr. SuEPLEY,] whose predecessor voIt was well known that he had a great number of bills to ted for the bill of the last session, and he felt confident read as the session drew to a close, and it was impossible that that gentleman could not by any means be induced to that he could have had sufficient time to prepare a new vote for the bill of this. There was, also, the Senator message on the subject. The Senate ought to have sent from New York, [Mr. TALLMADGE,] and others perhaps, the bill to him sooner than they did, then he might have neither of whom, he feared, would vote for it. returned it with his message before the rising of Congress. Mr. SHEPLEY moved to amend the motion to print, Now, he (Mr. F.) would say a word or two in regard to the injustice which it had been said the Chief Magistrate had done the country, in the exercise of his power, in withholding that bill. It was alleged to be an encroachment on the powers of Congress. But whose fault was it? It was their own; it was their duty to have sent it to him at an earlier day. What was the act of the President? Why he had postponed returning the bill for seven or eight months. Congress had still power over the subject, and if, as the gentleman from Kentucky had averred, the Senate could have passed the measure in 1833 by a majority of two-thirds, why then they could do it now. But how was it with the other House? There had been an important change in that body, for the present Congress had been appointed under the new census, and it at present represents a great majority of the people. He would ask if gentlemen would have had Congress to pursue that course which would have prevented a fair expression of taken, and decided in the affirmative: ayes 32, nays 9. the opinions of the people on this subject? Surely not. Supposing, by casualty, a constitutional majority could journ, it adjourn to meet on Monday next. have been procured in both Houses, was there any man who looked to the great foundation upon which our Government stood, disposed to deny the right of the majority to govern according to their will? Was there any man On taking the question, it was decided in the negative: who would not have regretted the passing of this act un-ayes 17, noes 21. der any other circumstances? Now, if the bill had been Mr. WEBSTER then said it would be necessary to passed at the last session of Congress, what would it have adopt an order for the purpose of giving effect to what been? The act, although condemned by a large portion of the people, could not have been repealed, without the consent of a majority of the Senate, constituted as it now was. And he would ask, if there was any honorable member who wished such had been the case?

Mr. PRESTON rose merely to state, that he was not willing to meet the issue proposed by the Senator from Georgia. The gentleman had called for the yeas and nays with regard to the printing of a report which he had not heard. He, Mr. P., declined expressing any opinion on the report; and he rose for the purpose of disclaiming any inference that might be drawn from his vote in favor of the printing of the report, with regard to his opinions as to the land bill.

Mr. CLAY. Had the gentleman forgotten the message re-nominating the rejected bank directors?

The CHAIR pronounced the amendment of Mr. SHEPLEY to be out of order.

Mr. CALHOUN said that he should vote for the printing of the extra number as a matter of courtesy. But his opinions concerning the bill itself were expressed at the last session, and they remained without change. The question on printing of 5,000 copies was then

Mr. CHAMBERS moved, that when the Senate ad

Mr. POINDEXTER hoped not. The Senate, he said, was under protest, and the sooner they got out of it the better.

he presumed was the wish of the Senate, when the injunction of secrecy was yesterday removed from the Executive proceeding. He thought this might as well be done in public session, and he had prepared a resolution relative to the publication of the proceedings in Executive session, which he had sent to the Secretary.

Mr. FORSYTH said there was other Executive business, which required the action of the Senate. On motion of Mr. WEBSTER,

The Senate then proceeded to the consideration of Executive business, and after remaining for some time in secret session,

The Senate adjourned.

SATURDAY, MAY 3.

NEW BEDFORD MEMORIAL.

[MAY 3, 1834.

ford. The fishing business was almost the sole business of New Bedford and Nantucket, and the time was, when, with no other trade, they had from 70 to 80 ships engaMr. SILSBEE said he desired to present a memorial ged in it beyond the capes of Good Hope and Horn-they from that section of New England which was extensively must, therefore, deal on credit, and their cry was not engaged in the fishing business. They complained of false clamor. But we were told by honorable gentlemen great pecuniary distress, and pressure, and injury to their that when this question was settled, prosperity would recommerce, owing to the removal of the deposites. He vive. Well, a decision had been made a month ago, by moved the usual reference of the memorial; and, after a majority of half a hundred votes, that the bank should being read, not be re-chartered, and yet the country is not settled, but is farther from it than ever.

Mr. SILSBEE replied, that he had not taken much time to inform himself. He believed that oil was from 70 to 75 cents a gallon; what the ordinary price was, he could not say. It sold at from 90 to 100 cents by the small quantity, and he would tell the gentleman that ships employed in the whale fishing had depreciated 25 per cent. He also hoped the gentleman from Georgia did not mean to say that he (Mr. S.) had occupied much time in discussions upon presenting memorials.

Mr. FORSYTH said he thought he understond that this memorial came from a district of country engaged in the Mr. FORSYTH replied, that he had not said that there business of fishing, complaining of the destruction of their was no cause of distress in the country, and that all the commerce. We had heard much of distress in the complaints sent here were false clamor. He admitted country, and we had memorials presented on the subject there was distress in some portions of the country, arising every day, and honorable gentlemen here proclaimed that from the abridgment of banking accommodations, and great distress, and reductions in the prices of various the derangement of the exchanges of the country. He products, were produced by the late measures of the Pres- believed that distress did exist among business-men whose ident. As to the other great objects of industry, the accommodations had stopped, and where runs had been prices current showed how correct they were. He would made upon banks having no metallic basis to support ask the gentleman who presented this memorial, what the them. What he said, was this, that there was no foundaprice of oil was? tion for the cry of distress, when we looked to the prices of the products of labor upon the forest, the ocean, or the earth. And what were they? All the prices showed them to be as high now as they were at this time last year, or higher than they were at the time when, according to the statements of honorable gentlemen, the country was overflowing with prosperity. The prices current were so over the whole United States. In Boston, on the 28th April, in the article of coffee, the prices were rising. [Mr. F. here read from the newspaper report of prices Mr. FORSYTH did not intend charging the honorable current.] Now, as to the article of cotton, in Boston gentleman with having occupied the time of the Senate four thousand bales were sold on manufacturers' account. by speaking upon memorials. He would do him no such So that all the manufactories were not stopped yet. New injustice, but he alluded to all the gentlemen on that side Orleans cotton, 13 to 15; flour in demand and scarce, of the House. As regarded the distress of the people of and he hoped when this news of the flour market reachNew Bedford, he thought the memorial said that ten ed New Orleans, it would rise there. Fish and molasses, thousand seamen were affected by the act of the Execu- as high as last year; sugar, prices firm and supplies limtive, and the honorable member told us that the object ited. Now, gentlemen said that the great necessaries of for which the sailors were employed bore the ordinary life were high, because the people must eat; but here all price. Mr. F. said that, from his experience and obser- the prices were given. The lumber trade, too, stood in vation, 70 to 76 cents was a very living price for fish oil; the same condition as it did this time last year, when we and while it stood at that, the sailors would be engaged were enjoying the most unbounded prosperity. But the in the business. But it was said that the equipments of gentleman from Massachusetts said that he (Mr. F.) was vessels were much reduced in price, and that a deficiency mistaken in regard to the New Bedford people. What in the value of ships of 25 per cent. had taken place. he (Mr. F.) stated, was, that the persons engaged in the But, Mr. F. thought that, upon examination, it would be whale fishing, if it be admitted that the article of their seen that this was not founded in fact. The cries of dis-pursuit in business is as high as usual, cannot be suffering tress were got up, not in the sections from which these distress. But the gentleman from Massachusetts tells us memorials came, but elsewhere. The heaviest cry came of great rivalry existing in the New Bedford and Nanfrom Baltimore, and there the pressure was extreme. He tucket fisheries. And what were the elements of this riheld in his hard the prices current in Baltimore, and from valry? Let us examine the subject a little. The people that it wouid seem that the prices were good. Fish, shad of New Bedford and Nantucket are, beyond all doubt, were pó 50 and herring $3 50 per barrel-flour, sales of unrivalled by the world in nautical skill and enterprise. Howard street at $5 per barrel. The article of sugar, But the case is different in other parts of the world, he would advert to for the benefit of the gentleman from where the expenses of an outfit, &c. are very great. Louisiana, [Mr. PORTER,] was $7 to $8 50, and he had There they are much cheaper. But the gentleman from heard a very large crop was sold lately in Philadelphia Massachusetts said that their business was deranged beat 8 cents. Tobacco $3 50, cotton 121 to 13-holders cause they purchased on a credit. The materials were firm and expecting better prices. He hoped gentlemen all there; and the only difference was, that those who would look at the prices current from the various parts had not capital could not get it. Mr. F. said his remarks of the country from which these memorials come. He applied to the sailors in that service, as the memorial rebelieved that persons doing business on credit, might be ferred to ten thousand sailors who were injuriously af suffering embarrassments, but he denied that there was fected by the measures of the administration. He beany distress pressing on the great objects of the country.lieved that the sailors engaged in those voyages for a Mr. WEBSTER said, that the theory of the honorable share in the profits of the voyage. Well, how were they member from Georgia was factitious, and not real. But affected? The returns of the former voyages were here, he thought the slightest reference to the great interests of and the object of their enterprise was at the same price. the whale fisheries, would convince any man that it must Was there any difficulty in making investments, when the be most affected by causes disturbing the general credit materials were 25 per cent. less in price than formerly of the country, owing to the long credits which the busi-But the honorable gentleman had referred to our predieness required; and, therefore, the gentleman was mista- tions, that when this agitating question was settled, relief ken, in applying his remarks to the people of New Bed-and tranquillity would be restored to the country. And

MAY 3, 1834.]

New Bedford Memorial.

[SENATE.

he told us that it was settled by the other branch of Con- When the quantity of flour now ready in the West, should gress. Did that gentleman so consider it? Could he cal- be shipped and brought to the East, there would be a glut culate that it was settled? What was the object of these in the market, in consequence of the want of money to memorials, and the speeches delivered upon them? Why, purchase. This result was natural, and must take place. that it should be unsettled until it could be settled in a Mr. SILSBEE said, he had thought the Senator from particular way. If honorable members had been satisfied Georgia would find it a hard task to prove that prices with the judgment of the House of Representatives, and were as high as last year. He had set out with a promturned their attention to the adoption of measures for the ise to show this. Had he done so? No! he had failed in general good, it would have been settled; but they have every instance-in the products of agriculture, manufac entered into the drama before the people with the House ture, and navigation. He had said that the price of oil of Representatives, and none with more force and elo- had not fallen. He (Mr. S.) affirmed that it had. If the quence than the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts, honorable Senator could prove the truth of what he had that the country must and should be agitated. But as far asserted, he (Mr. S.) would never again hazard an opinion as it could be settled under the circumstances, it had been on that floor. produced. Had not a manifest change for the better, in Mr. SPRAGUE would be glad to hear the Senator from the money market, taken place? Had not stocks risen? Georgia prove that the lumber trade was as good now as Had not exchange risen? Were there complaints in the it was last lear. He (Mr. S.) would be most grateful for city market? No. And this was owing, in part, to the intelligence of this kind if it came from a correct source. fulfilment of the prophecy by us; and when the people He had received recent information of a different kind saw that the wishes of the gentleman could not be accom- from two of the principal rivers of Maine on which this plished, gentlemen would cease to agitate the public trade was followed; and a gentleman was now sitting bemind, which would not have been agitated by the meas- hind him from the capital of the State, who had informed ures of the Executive, but for the interposition of extra-him, both before and since the honorable Senator from Georgia spoke, that a few days since there was no sale for the article of lumber. Those who had a stock of it could not sell a single cargo.

neous causes.

(Some further remarks were made by Messrs. CHAMBERS, KNIGHT, and PORTER, which were not reported.]

There was now a general voice from Maine, and parMr. EWING said, that the evidence brought forward ticularly the towns on the Kennebec; and he had it directby the Senator from Georgia, to show that there was no ly from a person well acquainted with the trade of that distress in the country, was of such a nature as would country, that there was no sale for the article. The lead all men of business to conclusions the very reverse stocks of lumber lie dead on the hands of the holders; it of those of the honorable Senator. He (Mr. E.) would had, indeed, become lumber on their hands. At Bangor show the gentleman the erroneous nature of his reason- there was no demand. Four vessels had sailed from that ing, by reference to one article-that of flour. It had port a few days ago with (as it was described by the party been said that articles of necessity could always command by whom he had been made acquainted with the fact) a price. This might be true in some cases, but was not nothing on board, but glory in the hold, and experiment on always so. Flour was an article of prime necessity, and deck. The honorable Senator from Georgia had said, that yet it had fallen in price. During the winter and spring, the fall of twenty-five per cent. in the value of shipping, the Eastern markets were supplied from their immediate was beneficial to the place. Many of his (Mr. S.'s) conneighborhood; the adjacent farmers brought in their stituents were ship-builders, and he could hardly imagine flour, which was generally consumed before the Western that they would look upon it as a benefit to them, that supply came in; there was, therefore, no decrease in the value of their labor had fallen in the market twentyprice under these circumstances, in the cities; the price five or thirty per cent. The ship-building and lumber there kept up, because the supply was only equal to the trade had stopped; and, if that would not produce disdemand; but when great quantities were brought in from tress, he would like to know how distress could be inthe West, the quantity of money in circulation regulated flicted on the community.

the price. If there was plenty of money to buy up the Mr. FORSYTH had not looked into the price of lumflour and lay it up till wanted, the sale was good; if there ber; but he understood that lumber had suffered exceswas little or no money, the sale was bad. The honorable sively. This was not owing to the removal of the deposSenator from Georgia had shown them a price current ites; but, it was cut high up the river, with a view of from the Eastern cities, for the purpose of proving that being brought off the ground when the river was so high flour was fetching a good price; it might do so there, for as to float it. The river has not risen during the present the causes he (Mr. E.) had mentioned; but they had ad-season, and therefore the owners had not been able to get vices from the West of a very different character. The it to market.

that the cost being lower was beneficial to the sailors, under the supposition of their profits continuing as usual.

He was not conversant in the prices of oil; but he bought sperm oil in Georgia at about a dollar per gallon, by retail; and he took it for granted that the wholesale prices in Boston could not be above seventy or seventyfive cents.

price was not there so good as in the Eastern cities. He He did not make the ridiculous assertion, that a fall in held in his hand a letter dated the 25th ultimo, which the price of shipping was beneficial to ship-builders; but, stated the price of flour at New Orleans to be $2 87, and this would induce corresponding depression in Cincinnati. The Senator from Georgia had said, that when the high price of flour in the Eastern cities reached the West, it would raise the price there. It would not do so. The people of the West knew as well as the honorable Senator what the price of flour was in the Eastern cities; but they knew, also, the effect which would be produced by sending their The gentleman had said that he (Mr. F.) had asserted flour to those markets. Were they to do so, the price what he had not proved. He did not say that all products would instantly fall. There were great quantities of flour bore the same price as last year, but that certain producin the West ready to be sent. A great portion of the tions were of the same price. The gentleman had acWestern supply was bought up by capitalists for ex-knowledged that the price of cotton, the great staple of portation, and another great portion was bought to the country, was good. Here Mr. F. stated, from the be laid up. Now, if there was not money to purchase in this way, he (Mr. E.) would ask whether, when the flour came in from the West, it would command as high price in the Eastern cities as it now commanded

price current, the prices of several commodities, which prices, he observed, were good. The article of wheat, for which formerly from ninety cents to a dollar was esteemed a good price, was now quoted at one dollar and