teach his church correctly, therefore he tells them to pray to the saints, to the Virgin Mary, and for the dead.

Roman Catholic. You cannot prove that my pope is not a very humble (or inferior) man to Christ. He is the true leader of the Christian established church.

Samuel. He is Antichrist, he is the enemy of Christ, because Christ is the prophet, priest, and king to his church. The pope is all these to his church. He is king over his church, and he has always been destroying the church of Christ. He is priest, and prays and blesses his church, and he is prophet in his church. So So many, he says, go to heaven, so many to hell, and so many to purgatory. He wishes to ruin the church of Christ, he therefore must be Antichrist, A Roman Catholic is an antichristian, and he must first be a disciple of Christ before he can be baptized. He must know what Christ said, and what he desires him to do. Without believing in Christ with the heart, without having Christianity in the heart, he does not belong to the church of Christ. In the city of Ephesus, some vagabond Jews attempted to cast out devils: but the Spirit said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are ye?"

Roman Catholic. But Antichrist, as you call him, baptizes in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Samuel. Very true. Satan knew very well that the Saviour during his temptation was the Son of

God, but notwithstanding he wished him to fall down and worship at his feet: so does the pope wish to make the name of Christ promote his designs, and make Christ fall down and worship him. I will give you a poor figure or parable. If the company's note, say of two or three hundred pagodas, be altered, it is spoiled, it is destroyed, it is thrown away as useless. So with the name of Christ in baptism. The Spanish dollar has got a superscription on it, that is always received as silver; but if one was found made of lead, and passing for silver, as soon it as was discovered to be lead, the superscription would not be regarded, it would be thrown away: so with the name of Christ in your baptism. The Saviour commanded his disciples to baptize those who believed on him; but antichristians ask first. Do you believe in the Pope? do you believe in the church of Rome? do you believe in the Virgin Mary? Christ Jesus commanded to baptize with water, but Antichrist orders salt, spittle, and oil, and with this mixture makes a cross on the forehead, tongue, back, chest. Antichrist says, I build thee on the rock, Peter, and then comes in the name of the Father, &c. Is this any thing like baptism? This has nothing to do with baptism. Antichrist is guided by the evil spirit.

The first question was resumed when they again met, and the answer given in the affirmative as at first. Proof was again required.

Roman Catholic. The only proof we have is, that Christ gave authority to the apostles to preach the gospel, but to Peter he said, (Matt. xvi. 18.)

Samuel. Are you the same church as that which was built on Peter?

Roman Catholic. Christ is the rock, but Peter is the head of it.

Samuel. From what espistle or part of Scripture are you able to prove that the faith of the church of Rome concerning images, prayer to saints, angels, or efficacy of purgatory, is agreeable to the word of God?

Roman Catholic. God himself commanded the worship of images, both in the Old and New Testament. The command that was given to make the cherubim and put them over the mercy seat.

Samuel. These were not made to be worshipped, The second commandment forbids the worship of images. The cherubim were made to be kept in the holy of holies, not to be seen by the people. Every thing was particularly appointed in the Old Testament, which was a figure of the New. The making of the serpent and placing it on the pole in the wilderness was by the command of God, and it is nearer your idea than the making of the cherubim. The people went after this serpent, and worshipped it, but Hezekiah, that good man, commanded it to be broken in pieces, because of the people's sin and folly. (2nd Kings xviii.; from 1st to 7th was read.)

Roman Catholic. If God has not forbidden the making of the cherubim, then we have a right to continue making images, and placing them in our churches.

Samuel. If you take your authority for making

images and placing them in your churches from the cherubim, then you must make your image in the same form, and you must keep Aaron's rod, the pot of manna, &c. and sprinkle blood before the altar. And if you could do all these things, you would prove yourselves to be a Jewish, but not a Christian church. The folly and wickedness of idolatry was now dwelt upon, and proved from Isaiah ch. xl. 17-26; xlii. 8; xliv. 6-22; xlvii. 3—11. From the conversation which arose, from the observations made, and the reading of the above passages, the ground of the argument was shifted, and the conversation was carried on in the following manner:

Roman Catholic. We make the image only to look at, and not to worship.

Samuel. That is not correct according to the belief of your church.

Roman Catholic. This is the opinion of our church, and it agrees with the Scriptures. Solomon made images for the temple, but not to worship.

Samuel. Write down and sign your name, that the church of Rome makes images only to look at, and not to worship.

Roman Catholic. No: I will never give you my name in writing about that-but the Protestants make images as well as the Roman Catholics to look at, though not to worship. In your Bibles you have pictures of Jesus Christ, &c. and we must have the same in our chapels.

Samuel. Very well, we shall bring these pictures

and throw them into the fire before you, and say, "We do not believe in these." If you will do the same with your images, then the argument is at an end, and we shall consider another subject. The Roman Catholics present rose at this saying, and declared: "If this man say we will do so, we shall lay hold of him by the neck, and push him out at the door." The heathens present said to the Roman Catholics: "You keep too long hesitating, and cannot defend yourselves on this part; we wish to hear something more on the other questions, therefore you had better give up." The Roman Catholics-" It is impossible to give up this, for without seeing the image of God, not one can go to the kingdom."

Heathens to Samuel. Is this truth?

Samuel. No: the image which the Roman Catholics worship and keep in their chapels, is Jesus Christ as Before Jesus Christ came into the world many went to heaven: Enoch, Noah, Abraham, &c.

man.

The Roman Catholics. We did not mean those of the Old Testament, but of the New Testament; all the apostles saw the body of Christ. When Christ ascended up into heaven the apostles went to preach, and carried the images of Christ in their hand: they could not preach without the image.

Heathens to Samuel. Is that true, that the apostles took the images in their pockets to different places when they preached?

Samuel. Allow me to make some observations before I speak of this. The villages around us belong