causes had made the colored people what they were intellectually and morally, and their condition, in these respects, afforded, as I think, reasonable ground for the doubt entertained.

I am glad to say that these hindrances, so far as they rest upon long standing habits of thought, upon lack of information in respect to the new educational policy, upon the violent innovations on established modes of framing organic law, and upon speculations in reference to questions of race, have well nigh disappeared. The people of the South have consented to give up the old and try the new; they have studied the philosophy of the modern educational system, and many have studied with approval; they have dismissed speculative theories and have accepted what they now consider accomplished facts. The most convincing proof of these declarations is found in the fact that constitutions. conforming to the new ideas are generally being adopted throughout the South by conventions in which men of the old school hold absolute sway, and an honest effort is being made everywhere throughout that entire section to educate all the children, irrespective of race. The greatest obstacle of all, that to which I first alluded and to which I now again refer, still remains, viz, our poverty and the vast number of the helpless thrown upon our hands. Out of this hard, stern fact grows the great, the overshadowing need of the South at this time, viz, more means. True, there are other needs. We need a deeper and more general public interest in education than can be excited among a partially educated population. We need a more intelligent comprehension of our educational situation than can be found among our rulers. We need a much larger and more enterprising body of thoroughly qualified teachers for both our white and colored schools, and especially for the latter. We need very much an adequate number of well endowed, well manned normal schools for keeping up this supply of well trained teachers. To these and similar topics the minds of some experienced educators would doubtless have turned in presenting my theme. But our need of means, the great, the ever present, the all pervading need, which for years past. has been resting upon my mind, and blocking up the way to success in every grade of educational effort, whether in the college, the high school, the academy, or the common school, took possession of my mind when I entered upon this discussion; and I could not refrain from such a statement of historic and other facts and such a train of thought and argument as might enable me to bring out this one great need in all the weight of its overwhelming emphasis.

A few more thoughts now and this hour's work will be done. I have said that the people of the South are making an honest effort to educate the children of all classes, irrespective of race. I might have made that statement stronger. I might, with truth, have characterized the effort as heroic. Solomon says, "He that ruleth his spirit is better than he that taketh a city;" if the spectacle of self-conquest in an individual is sublime, what shall we say of the spectacle when a whole people

place themselves in that attitude? And this is the attitude of the South to-day. We have presented our shoulders to the burden placed upon them; but while we have been bearing this burden as best we could, in silence, we have felt, all the while, that it was not all ours. It was put upon us as a result of the war, and we feel that the whole country ought to aid us in bearing it. You are ready to ask, why refer to a topic like this in the presence of a body with no power to act? The men sitting here, and the thousands of intelligent men in all parts of the country whom they, in some sense, represent, can make themselves felt with a body that is potential. It is for this reason that I have touched upon this topic. Having now unburdened my heart of what I, in common with multitudes of the best men at the South, have long felt, I now leave the subject with you.

At the close of the prepared address, the speaker begged leave to make some additional statements. He said he regretted that he did not have the statistics from all the States of the South which verify the statement that these States are now making an earnest effort to educate the children of all classes. He desired, however, to give the Georgia statistics. Public schools were first put in operation, in that State, in 1871. In 1872 the school work was interrupted in consequence of a previous misapplication of the school fund. There have been enrolled in the schools in the successive years since the beginning of the work as follows:

In the cities, the schools are kept in operation for ten months of the year. In the rural districts, he regretted to say that they are kept open only for three months; and the school fund is so small as to be inadequate to pay all the expenses of even this short term.

Dr. PHILBRICK hoped that Dr. Orr's paper would be referred to the committee on legislation with a view to bringing the matter to the attention of Congress, which is the only source from which help for the South in this emergency is possible.

The PRESIDENT suggested that Dr. Orr's paper should be printed and widely distributed by the Bureau of Education.

Hon. JOHN HANCOCK, LL. D., superintendent of the Dayton (Ohio)

The following revision of the remarks of Dr. Harris was received too late for use at the proper time. It is therefore inserted in its present shape:

Hon. WILLIAM T. HARRIS, LL. D., of St. Louis, said: I did not come prepared to make a speech. I must say, though, that I feel a deep interest in the paper of Dr. Orr. I paid a visit last summer, and it was my first visit, to Georgia, to attend the State meeting of teachers. also visited Tennessee, and had a great many talks with men who identify themselves with education in the State, and I have done considerable thinking on this subject myself. Now, I am thoroughly in favor of local legislation. Every place should govern itself in so far as its interests can be bounded by the lines of locality. As soon as these extend beyond its boundaries and become common interests, then it must be governed by the laws of the whole nation. A locality may govern itself as far as its own interests are concerned; but as the interests become more general in character, it must be governed by the will of the larger community; and I think the Government could not do a wiser or a better thing than to determine the policy of all the States in reference to education. The great point is that Congress shall take all its lands now on hand and hereafter to be obtained and devote the proceeds therefrom to the creation of an educational fund, under the control of the United States, the fund then to be divided among the States in proportion to the amount of illiteracy in them; and, since the effects of the war have entailed so much illiteracy upon the Southern States, let them get the largest proportion of the fund. This educational interest is one that affects the whole country, and it should be settled in a national way.

Dr. HARRIS. I would support that motion, and desire to point out in what respect we need a correction of the schedule on which the census is based. General Francis A. Walker, who has had the census in charge, is well known to be a competent man for the position. He has prepared very interesting tables in respect to the sociology of the United States and other important matters. But there is one direction in which his labors could be made much more available to us in our school interests, and that is in the way of furnishing us the means of correcting local censuses. These are known to be erroneous and unreliable for our purposes from many causes. One is, that the census is taken by a man who goes from door to door and inquires of the servant maid for the names of those between the ages of five and twenty-one years. He thus gets his information from an unintelligent and for that reason untrust

worthy source. Now, the United States census is taken with the utmost care, the schedules are left to be filled out by the household, and there are so many items in them that they insure close attention, the items of ages in particular being taken with the greatest care. The school items call for the number of children less than one year old, the number at one year, the number between one and two years, the number less than three, and so on up to four years of age. They do not give the number between five and six years, or between six and seven, but they give those from five to nine years, then those from ten to fourteen, then from fifteen to seventeen, then from fifteen to nineteen, and so on. But there is no possible way of getting at the number who are of school age in any State by the United States census, because the school ages do not correspond with the ages General Walker has given. What we want, therefore, is that the schedule shall show the ages by years from one to twenty-one, male and female; and not only for the State, but for minor subdivisions, so that we can see the difference between cities and country and the relative growth of the cities. The number in Missouri, for instance, is 39,795, in every aggregate of 100,000, between the ages of five and twenty-one years; but the data for cities are not given in detail separately. Now, in St. Louis we have of school age 90 per cent. of the ratio of school age for the State; we have there more old persons; and Chicago has only about 80 per cent. of the ratio of school age in the whole Statea very interesting social point, showing the rate of emigration of the different States. We took in St. Louis, in December, school census,

and we found that it was taken so poorly and was so unreliable in its results that it gave us fewer children than the census of 1870—that is, 40,000 less population than the United States census. These remarks will go to show how important it is that the census of the United States should correct its schedule for the ages between one and twenty-one.

schools, suggested that southern members of Congress be specially urged to work for the provision desired.

Hon. WILLIAM T. HARRIS, LL. D., of St. Louis, said: I did not come prepared to make a speech. I must say, though, that I feel a deep interest in the paper of Dr. Orr. I paid a visit last summer, and it was my first visit, to Georgia, to attend the State meeting of teachers. I also visited Tennessee, and had a great many talks with men who identify themselves with education in the State, and I have done considerable thinking on this subject myself. Now, I am thoroughly in favor of local legislation. Every place should govern itself in so far as its interests can be bounded by the lines of locality: as soon as these extend over its vicinity, and become common interests, then it must be governed by common laws. So, when it is a common interest with a larger territory, I believe that the United States should lend a helping hand. A locality may govern itself as far as its own interests are concerned; but as the interests become more general in character, they must be governed by larger communities, and I think the government could not do a wiser or a better thing than to determine the policy of all the States in reference to education. This is a question that is now being debated in Massachusetts, and also throughout the West. The question arises whether we shall have a high school education or not. We want Congress to settle this matter. We want money put into a State university. Now, I do not believe you can build a high school and have no connecting link between it and the university. The great point is that the United States shall take all its lands now to be sold and hereafter to be obtained, when we get Mexico and the South American republics under our control [laughter], and sell the lands, the proceeds therefrom to be devoted to the creation of an educational fund, under the control of the United States, and the fund then divided among the States in proportion to the amount of illiteracy in them; and as long as the effects of the war have entailed so much illiteracy upon the Southern States, let them get the largest proportion of the fund. This educational interest is one that affects the whole country, and this matter should be settled in a national way. Now, the most reasonable and feasible thing is that the money should come from the General Government, from the sales of public lands, the money to be divided, as I said before, according to the illiteracy existing in each State. Congress should settle this matter, if it desires to do so, and dispose of it at once. This is a measure that has been pending before the National Legislature for years, and should be disposed of without further delay; and, if necessary, Congress should appoint officers to see that this money be properly distributed for educational purposes and divided according to the illiteracy in the several States.

Dr. PHILBRICK believed that the educational sentiment of New Eng land is entirely in sympathy with the attempt to afford relief to the South. He thought the matter one of vital interest, and worthy of the