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Mr. BELLOWS. We have felt that with chain broadcasting-and I might say, in order to clear up one or two things that have come up here, that the stations which are taking chain programs, except those which are actually under and operated by the companies that have been referred to, have no connection whatsoever with any of the companies which have been mentioned, such as the Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co., the Radio Corporation of America, the General Electric Co., etc. But, to proceed: The contract under which we operate is merely the contract for serving us with program material, which can be canceled on 30 days' notice by either side without penalty. Nobody in connection with that contract has anything to say about what programs we shall take or for what length of time the service shall be. We simply buy that service, exactly as we buy a program service at our station. For instance, I buy the service of the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra for any given time, and I buy chain programs on the same basis exactly.

Now, we have felt that in order to give the type of service which I spoke of at the beginning of my statement, a thoroughly varied service, it is indispensable for the station to have a source of program material outside of its own field. If people want to hear the Lindbergh celebration, for instance, they are entitled to get it. If they want to hear the Dempsey-Tunney fight, they want to hear it, and we must give it to them. If they want to hear the football game from Pasadena, we want to give it to them. If they want to hear a speech, such as was made by the chairman of this committee not long ago, they are entitled to hear it. And I do not think that Senator Watson would like to have been compelled to visit-was it forty-odd stations that you spoke over, Senator?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. At least, there were forty-odd stations at the beginning of my talk, but I do not know how many tuned off.

Senator COUZENS. That is one advantage the radio listener has on a speech made by any of us.

Mr. BELLOWS. Just think of it, if the chairman of this committee had visited every one of those stations it would have taken a great deal of time from his work here in the Senate. So I say, that service is made possible only by the development of the commercial service, of the advertising programs, if you will, of the kind that the network send out. On the other hand, it has been our feeling, and I am speaking now purely as a station manager as this has nothing to do with the Federal Radio Commission at all; it is our feeling that it is most undesirable to fill up the time of a high-powered station with network programs, probably because of duplication of other network programs, but more particularly because I believe that what the listeners want and what I know my listeners want, is a varied service. They want the best that we can give them from wherever we can get it. So, finding that there were a lot of network programs, we leased time over a smaller station, located in Minneapolis, in order to take our choice of the network programs offered so that we might feel we were getting the choice of what programs were worthy of being sent out over high power.

When we put on the Bowl of Roses football game from Pasadena, Calif., we knew from the demand that had come from all over the Northwest that people wanted to hear it. And we give them that on

7,500 watts, which was the maximum of our daytime license. It was daytime when that football game came on.

Senator HAWES. Is there any analogy between that service and the service that is given by the Associated Press and other large news agencies, whereby the newspapers of the country draw upon that one source as a center of news?

Mr. BELLOWS. There is a very close analogy, Senator Hawes, so close that we in the commission, when the question was raised, considered the matter of monopoly in broadcasting. Of course we considered it obviously our duty under the law to consider it, but the first thing that came up was: What are you going to do about chain broadcasting? It was a very pertinent question. We said: This thing is the Associated Press, the United Press, of the air service. There is no connection either of ownership, management, or operation with these net-work stations. They have not been pushed into this thing. They have clamored to get on; they have begged to get the privilege of this service.

Senator HAWES. As I understand it, there are three or four great press associations operating in Washington.

Mr. BELLOWs. I believe so.

Senator HAWES. With the very best men that they can procure to ascertain what is going on here.

Mr. BELLOWs. There are.

Senator HAWES. And from 500 to 1,000 newspapers in the United States will buy that service instead of having men here directly representing them.

Mr. BELLOWS. Exactly.

Senator HAWES. It is the clearing house for the news of the world. The different newspapers buy as much of it as they want.

Mr. BELLOWs. I understand so.

Senator HAWES. And as to these different broadcasting organizations, the smallest stations buy as much of their programs as they want?

Mr. BELLOWS. Exactly.

Senator HAWES. Is that the way it works?

Mr. BELLOWS. That in general is the way it works. It is more closely analogous to the Associated Press, I would say, than to the other press services, in that the relations at present are limited to one or two stations in a field, because of the lack of wire facilities. After all, these things have to come over the wire, and if you have to serve, for instance, two stations at once at the same place you have to have two main lines of wire to do that, and that is pretty expensive service; it costs more money. Wires are being built more and more, but the problem at the present is to get the wire facilities. to send out these programs. At the same time it is only in that. way that the listener may be able to get what he wants. If you gentlemen could see the kind of letters that come in to a broadcasting station, you would understand it more clearly. I received a letter from a man up in your State, Senator Hawes, who listened to the program which contained the New York Symphony Orchestra, and he said something like this: "I never thought anything of that kind would happen in my life." Therefore you will see what it means to those people. And that is only possible by chain broad

casting. That is the sort of thing that can only go on the air generally in that way, whether it is a symphony orchestra or a football game or any particularly interesting event.

Senator HAWES. The reports on the two great national conventions will be chain broadcast.

Mr. BELLOWS. Exactly.

Senator HAWES. Or such as the Lindbergh reception or any other unusual event.

Mr. BELLOWS. Exactly.

Senator HAWES. If it were not for chain broadcasting 75 per cent of the United States would not have such a story told over the air. Mr. BELLOWS. If it were not for chain broadcasting, 95 per cent of the people in the United States would not have such a story told over the air because of the very limited effective range of any broadcasting station. You talk about the range of a high-powered broadcasting station. I do not think the effective range of any station in the country to-day is more than 150 or 175 miles; I do not think it is delivering good service for more than that distance, and I do not care what its power may be.

Senator HAWES. I was interested in the statement made by Mr. Pickard, and your statement, too, that you give especial consideration to the point of view of the receiver.

Mr. BELLOWS. That was the basis of every decision that was made on the Federal Radio Commission.

Senator HAWES. That was as to the basis of satisfaction in each community?

Mr. BELLOWS. Exactly. I might add to that, after that time with regard to any station if there was a violent protest against it, we assumed that there again the owner of the station had the burden of proving that he was rendering a service, in order to offset that hostility or to prove that the hostility itself was unjustified.

Senator HAWES. For illustration: The wires are taking the story of the conquest of the air by Lindbergh and a local station wants to give a jazz band, and that would crowd it out. You consider the feelings of those persons who would like to hear of the Lindbergh flight as against those who want to hear the jazz band.

Mr. BELLOWS. We certainly did, and we decided that assuming two broadcasters had an equal right, the listener was the one to decide which one of them had the better opportunity to carry his message.

Senator WHEELER. Of course, that ultimately means that the man who has got the money to put on the best show is going to wipe all the smaller ones out of the air.

Mr. BELLOWS. Well, I can hardly see that, because chain broadcasting is not exactly profitable to the stations, but it pays a slight margin to the stations that take it.

Senator HAWES. That is the reason why I asked if there was an analogy between the Associated Press and this service, because certainly the Associated Press has not wiped out the newspaper

business.

Mr. BELLOws. No.

Senator DILL. As I understand the siuation

Senator WHEELER (interposing.) It has come pretty near to doing that, at least in some places.

Senator DILL. There are two kinds of chain broadcasting. One is a sponsored program paid for by advertising good will and the other is put on by the broadcasting company which is putting it out over the air.

Mr. BELLOWS. Yes, sir.

Senator DILL. Such things as the Colonel Lindbergh reception and the message by the President, for instance, are put on by the broadcasting_company, while such things as the Pasadena football game or the Dempsey-Tunney fight are sponsored and paid for by somebody else.

Mr. BELLOWS. Yes. In that case the broadcasting station buys the service and pays for it if it wants it. If he does not want it, he does not take it. The central agency, such as the National Broadcasting Co. or the Columbia chain, whichever you like to use, sends you notice that on such and such a day they are going to have such and such a program, and they ask you if you want it, that it will cost you so much. Then, if you want it you take it and pay for it, and if you do not want it you simply do not buy it and do not pay any attention to it.

Senator WHEELER. I do not think that you can compare chain broadcasting with the Associated Press for the reason that the Associated Press controls no patents, while the Radio Corporation of America does.

Mr. BELLOWS. That is perfectly true. And I would go one step farther and say that the station in radio is complicated by the fact that, mechnically as things stand now. there is only room for a certain number of stations, and yet, on the other hand, you can have as many newspapers as can be supported by the public. That is a different situation in that respect. We have tried to meet that in dealing with applications by giving just as much representation as we could to every element, to every group that presented itself.

Now, in this matter we have spoken of the burden of proof being placed by the Federal Radio Commission on the wave jumpers and the power jumpers

Senator HAWES (interposing). Let me ask you right there: Do you know of any way by which the Federal Radio Commission could control a patent?

Mr. BELLOWS. Under the present law I certainly do not.

Senator HAWES. Is there anything you can do about that when the United States Government gives the exclusive use of an article to a man for a period of years, to take it away from him without an act of Congress?

Mr. BELLOWS. There is certainly no way to do it.

Senator WHEELER. That is the unfortunate part of it.

Mr. BELLOWS. But that is a thing completely out of our control. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions of Mr. Bellows? [A pause, without response.] If not, we are very much obliged to you, Mr. Bellows.

Mr. BELLOWS. And I thank you for the opportunity.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Simon is here and wants to be heard.

FEDERAL RADIO COMMISSIONERS

101 ·

Senator DILL. I have one or two questions that have no relation to this matter, but I want to ask them because of remarks that have floated around.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly; go ahead.

Senator DILL. One is: Mr. Bellows, why did you leave the Federal Radio Commission?

Mr. BELLOWS. I left the commission because I did not have any more money. I was not confirmed, and was drawing no pay and living entirely on my personal resources, and they had come to an end.

Senator DILL. And the second one is: During the period when you were on the Federal Radio Commission did you have any financial or other connection with WCCO or any other station?

Mr. BELLOWS. I did not in any way at all.

Senator DILL. I simply ask these questions in order to clear the record for your benefit.

Mr. BELLOWS. I thank you, and wish to add that documentary evidence about that may be procured if desired.

Senator DILL. Oh, no. And I will say in that respect that I wired the stations and they wired back that you had no connection.

Mr. BELLOWS. My resignation was presented on the 7th of March, 1927, and accepted and our connection ended; and, as a matter of fact, I will say that they were so definitely convinced that I was not going back that they tried to sell the station.

Senator DILL. And you had no financial interest in it?

Mr. BELLOws. None whatever.

Senator HAWES. The situation here was that you were starved

out.

Mr. BELLOWS. Yes, sir; I was starved out. (Mr. Bellows left the hearing table.)

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Simon, you may take the chair.

STATEMENT OF EMIL J. SIMON, PRESIDENT OF THE INTERCITY RADIOTELEGRAPH CO., CLEVELAND, OHIO

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Simon, you may tell the committee your name, whom you represent, and your residence.

Mr. SIMON. My name is Emil J. Simon. I am the president of the Intercity Radiotelegraph Co., with headquarters at Cleveland, Ohio.

Senator DILL. I understood that you had some data you wanted to give the committee on the short-wave question and some objection to the Federal Radio Commission.

Mr. SIMON. Yes, I have, Senator Dill; and I appreciate very much the chairman allowing me to present these matters so promptly. I am very anxious to get back to my city.

The CHAIRMAN. This bears on the question of the competency of the members of the Federal Radio Commission, as I understand. Mr. SIMON. Entirely.

The CHAIRMAN. And on the policies of the commission?

Mr. SIMON. Yes, sir. In fact, I have only two distinct matters that I want to present before the committee, and they are practically

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