fect a Treaty which has been fully ratify'd by both the contracting Powers.

The Nardat Agryl spoke next to the following Effect.

My LORDS,

INCE I have had the Honour to

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is agreed upon with reciprocal Accord. My Lords, I cannot fee what can be ftronger that thefe Expreffions, to make it just as important and as authentic as the Convention itself. A noble Lords who oppofed the Motion, But, fay the the Urg; Knee did not fign it, and by accepting it, and tranfmitting it to this Court and to the Pacific Company, he did no more than as Agent for My Lords, I am of a very different that Company he was obliged to do. Opinion. As Agent for that Company, he had a Power of making what Conceffions he had a mind, at least so far as his Commiffion reach'd, on the Part impower'd him fo to do, he might of the Company; and if the Company engage for the Payment of the Sum mentioned in the Declaration; but he was not to agree to the giving up na ties. tional Engagements, and folemn Trea

fit in this Houfe, I don't think that I ever heard a Motion made that was less liable to Objections than the prefent. After a long Tract of Negotiations, a very unusual Forbearance, B we have got a preliminary Treaty from the Court of Iberia, but clogg'd with a Provifo abfolutely requiring a Condition to be fulfilled on our Part. My Lords, I readily agree with the noble Lords who have spoke againft the Motion, that the Affairs of Trade, which may occafion Differences betwixt the Pacific Company and his Iberian Majefty, are not properly cognizable by us; but when that Court affumes to itself a Right to fufpend folemn Trea-Dwho fpoke laft infifted, this Affair If, my Lords, as the noble Lord ties fubfifting with our Court, if their Concerns in Trade are not adjusted to their own Liking, I think it is high time for us to interpofe. The Affiento Contract, my Lords, and the Liberty which the Pacific Company has of fending an annual Ship to the Iberian Idnies, are two of the principal Advantages that this Nation reap'd from a very long and expenfive War. And, my Lords, if the Iberian Court, upon every little Difference with this Company, fhall affume to itself a Right to deprive us of thefe Advantages, which we enjoy by fo many folemn Treaties, I think, if any Affair ever was of public, of national Concern, this is fa

The Declaration we have now heard read, carries with it all the Characters of a public Act of that Crown. It is given in and fign'd by his Iberian Majesty's first Secretary of State, and first Plenipotentiary for the Convention; he tells you therein, that he gives it in confequence of repeated Memorials and Declarations that have paffed betwixt him and the Urg Knee, his Lilliputian Majesty's Plenipotentiary; and that it

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were of a private Nature, and conus, I fhould be very far from taking cern'd only one Set of Men amongst up your Lordships Time in fpeaking appears to me to be an Affair that confor the Motion; but, my Lords, it cerns the Honour of the Crown, and the Intereft not only of the Pacific Company, but of all the Empire: It in a more special manner concerns the Affair which we are to have under our mean the Convention; for your LordDeliberation in a very few Days; I fhips fee that the Iberian Minister by this Declaration allows no Strength, no Validity to that Treaty, any farther than the Terms of his Demand how is it poffible for us to know how are comply'd with. But, my Lords, reasonable these Demands are, unless we hear what the Party concern'd has tion to a Treaty wherein one of the to fay? Shall we give our Approbacontracting Powers previously tells us, that the Validity of the Treaty does not depend either upon our approving or his Majesty's ratifying it, but upon an Event that, properly speaking, has

no Regard to the

hat, my Lords, it feems, the Iberians are of Opinion that we are either to force the Pacific Company to comply with the Terms of this Declaration, or we are to look upon all that has paffed A betwixt our Minifters and theirs as a meer Farce. This, Sir, is plainly the Language of the Declaration, and I might challenge any Man alive to make any other Meaning out of it.

I he noble Lord who spoke laft faid, that we ought to know the Refult of the Pacific Company's Refolutions before we agree to the prefent Motion. My Lords, I cannot at all fee the Expediency of that. I don't think that our Deliberations ought to depend upon the Refolutions of any Company. C I fhall fuppofe, my Lords, what may very poffibly happen; we have alrea dy appointed a Day to take the Convention under our Confideration; find it to be a proper Measure, and we return his Majefty an Addrefs of l'hanks !upon it. The Pacific Company in

we

the mean time meet and confider the Demand of the Iberian Court; they find that it is either unjuft in itself, or that the Conditions upon which they own'd the Debt to be just, and promis'd Payment of it, have not been fulfill'd on his Iberian Majefty's Part; therefore they refuse to pay it. What follows upon this? The Iberian Court tells us that the Convention is invalid, fince the Condition upon which they agreed to it is unfulfill'd. In this Event, my Lords, all we have been doing, all our Debates upon this Measure, muft go for nothing. Therefore, my Lords, it would be certainly the wifeft, as well as the moft expeditious Course, for us to examine the Directors of the Company beforehand, and be inform'd by them of the Nature of this Claim, and know if they will pay it or not. If they are fatisiy'd of its Juftice, and if they are willing to pay it, we can then regularly proceed upon the Merits of the Convention; but if they refufe it, and are determin'd not to pay it, where is the Neceffity of our putting ourfelves to a vaft deal of needlefs Trouble,

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in coming to Refolutions that can be of no Effect?

My Lords, I cannot fay I am unquestionably warranted in what I fhail advance; but if my Information is right, there never was any Claim more unjuft than this of the Iberian Court. I have heard, my Lords, they are fo far from being indebted to the Iberian Crown, that that Crown is indebted to them for near fix times the Sum pretended by this Declaration to be owing to it. I have heard, my Lords, that this Debt on the Duty of the Negroes is one of the most unjust, arbitrary Claims that ever was; (See p. 485. D.] that the Valuation of the Dollar at 52 Grulls never was fettled till feveral Years after the Affiento Contract was made, and that his berian Majesty demands that all the Deficiency, that happens by their making their former Payments in the Dollars of the Valuation they stood at when the Affiento Contract was made, fhould now be paid in to his Iberian Majesty, in the fame manner as if the Value of the Dollar had been the fame then as it is now. My Lords, if this is Truth, I think there never was any Demand more exorbitant; I think this Declaration is a kind of a Defeazance upon the whole Tranfaction, in cafe fuch Terms are not comply'd with, as in themfelves are highly unreafonable, and which the Iberians themselves know never will be granted.

If this, my Lords, is the Cafe, I think it is very extraordinary that the Urg; Kne fhould make any fuch Conceflion as is imply'd in this Declaration at the Court of Iberia. If he did it in confequence of his Inftructions from the Pacific Company, I think that G Company has done one of the most extraordinary Things that ever was heard of; and if he had no fuch Inftructions, I think he has acted in a very unheard-of Manner. But, my Lords, be that how it will, he is certainly to blame in admitting the Execution of a public Treaty to depend on that of a private Tranfaction. There is, my Lords, another very unaccount

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The 19th Day being appointed by the Hurgoes for taking the Convention under their Confideration, the Houfe for fome Days before was employ'd in examining a Clinab, who, in Confequence of the Treary of Sebfule, was named one of the Commiffaries on the Part of Great Lilli

Put, for fettling the Differences that remain'd undetermined by that Treaty. They likewife examin'd the Merchants who had petition'd to be heard against

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On the 14th Day of the Seffion, the Hurgoes being fummoned to attend, in order to take into Confideration the late Convention, after reading it the Hurgo Sholmlug spoke to the fol lowing Effect:

My LORDS,

WE

the Convention at the Bar of the Houfe. The Points upon which the Commiffary was examin'd were in what Manner the Claims of the Lilli Putian Merchants for their Loffes by the Iberians were managed, and for what Reafons their Demands, which originally amounted to 374,000 Sprugs, were reduced to 155,000. The Account he gave was, that 174,000 Sprugs were, in Čoncert with the Iberian Commiffaries, ftruck E are now met in order to apoff from the Whole, 200,000 being thought prove or difapprove of a Meafufficient to answer all their juft Demands; B fure that has made a very great Noife and that 45,000 more were ftruck off tor in the World, and is of the utmost prompt Payment, which reduced the Confequence to the Honour and InWhole to is5,000: But as the Conventereft of this Empire. As your Lordtion mentions only 95,000 for the Balance due on the Part of Iberia, it may be nefhips have, with great Patience and ceflary previously to inform the Reader, Candor, heard the Petitioners against that in the 5th Moon of Gergenti the ift, the Convention, your Lordships canthat Prince gave Orders to his Admiral to C not mifs now of being thoroughly informed of every poffible Objection to it. For my own Part, my Lords, I have given all the Attention that I was capable of giving in this Affair: I have endeavoured, as much as poffibly I could, to be quite unbyafs'd; and, flatter myself, the Judgment I have form'd of this Measure, is the Refult of an impartial Inquiry into its Merits. I don't know whether I fhall be fo fortunate as to have your Lordships of the fame Opinion with me, but I hope your Lord hips will indulge me a little while I give my Reasons for a Motion that I fhall take the Liberty to make.

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attack the Iberian Fleet that was then difturbing the Peace of Itlafen, which the Crown of Great Lilliput stood engaged to preferve. This he did with fuch Succefs, that he almoft irretrievably ruined at one Blow the naval Force of Iberia. Tho' this Action was founded on true Maxims D of Policy, yet no Declaration of War having been made on the Part of either Crown, it gave the Iberians a Handle to filt on Satisfaction for the Lofs of the Ships they then fuftained. Accordingly in a Treaty, made at Mardit 3 Moons after, it was ftipulated that his Lilliputian Majelty fhall caufe to be restored to his IbeE rian Majefty all the Ships taken in the above mention'd Action, with the Guns, Sails, Rigging, and other Equipage, in the Condition they were then in, or the Whoever, my Lords, confiders the Value, if fold, at the Price the Purcha- mutual Interefts of Great Lilliput and fers gave. Accordingly Commiffaries Iberia, will easily allow that these Incame for the Captures, but the Iberians terests are best confulted by cultivating finding them much difabled and unfit for F a ftrict Peace and Harmony with one Service, refufed to take them; fo that it was judged proper to carry them out of another. Great Lilliput, whose Welthe Port, and link them in the open Sea. fare depends upon a Trade, in which The Iberians, however, ftill infifted on the has now many Rivals, reaps great Reftitution, and the Commiffaries ap. Advantages from a free and uninter pointed in Confequence of the Treaty of rupted Commerce with Iberia. And, Sebfule agreed to allow them 60,000 Sprugs in Confideration of their Damage. G on the other hand, the Neceffity that But his Iberian Majefty being indebted Iberia is under to cultivate a good Unfor the above mentioned Sum of 155,000 derstanding with Great Lilliput is to Sprugs to the Lilliputian Merchants, it evident, that it is become even proverwas agreed between the two Courts that bial amongst them. The Advantages the 60,000 Sprugs fhould be paid by the of a good Understanding being thus Senate to the Merchants, which Reduc. tion being made from the Total, reduced & mutual, it is to be prefumed that the Balance to be paid by Iberia to 95,000, as H Minifters of both Crowns will be eftipulated by the Convention. It was ne- qually defirous, equally fincere in receflary to premife this, that the Reader moving all Impediments to fo defirable might have a clearer Conception of this an End. At the fame Time, my important Affair. We fhall now proceed.

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fearching, and taking of Vessels, the feizing of Effects, the Regulation of Limits, and other Grievances alledged on each Side, (for, my Lords, the Iberians have their Grievances as well as we); therefore his Imperial Majefty A narch, having nothing so much at Heart of Great Lilliput, and the Iberian Mo as to preferve and corroborate the good Correfpondence which has fo long fubfiftPlenipotentiaries to conclude this Coned, have granted full Powers to their vention. his Preamble, my Lords, fhews a fincere Intention, in each of the contracting Powers, to yield to the juft Demands of the other. We, on our Side, have complained of the fearching, vifiting, and taking our The Iberians, on their Side, complain Ships, and the feizing our Effects. that we have encroached upon their Limits. Both Crowns are fenfible that, unless the Caufes of these Complaints are removed, a Rupture muft follow.

Lords, the great Intercourfe betwixt the Subjects of the two Empires, the Neighbourhood of their Poffeffions, and, give me Leave to add, the different Genius of the two People, render these Impediments pretty frequent; and they are of fuch a Nature as not to be furmounted but by each Party wifely yielding a little to the other. As their Poffeffions in Columbia is the Source of their Wealth, and as the Trade which we carry on with our Settlements there is the most valuable Branch of our Commerce, the Prefervation of that Trade, and these Poffeffions, free and entire, is what each Empire is prefumed principally to have in View. But as thefe Poffeffions and Settlemens lie at fuch a vaft Diftance from the Seat of Empire of each, there is no wonder if it is often very difficult for the Government in Degulia to form a right Judgment of the Facts that create Differences betwixt the two Crowns; the Officers of both representing Matters to their own Court in fuch Colours as may best excufe their own Conduct, or promote their Intereft. So that, tho' each Crown had the best Difpofitions in the World to do Juftice to the Subjects of the o- & ther, it is many times next to impoffible for either to form a true Judgment of Matters fo foon as the Impatience of the Parties requires.

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I am apt to believe, my Lords, that the Differences, which have so long fub. fifted between the Courts of Great Lil. liput and Iberia, are rather owing to these Causes, than to any Claim of Sovereignty on the Columbian Seas, or to any exclufive Right of Navigation the Iberians pretend to on these Seas. The firft, my Lords, has never yet been owned by the Court of Iberia; and, indeed, it is too ridiculous a Claim for any People, not abfolutely void of common Senfe, to infist on. The other Claim, I think, is given up by the Convention. The Pream-H ble, my Lords, of that Treaty fays, That whereas Differences have arifen between the Courts of Great Lilliput and Iberia, on account of vifiting,

But, my Lords, as we have already fuffered a great deal, as our Trade has been put under great Incumbrances, and the Loffes of our Merchants have been confiderable, it was but reafonable that our Claims fhould have a Retrofpect. Accordingly we find that the first Article of the Convention not only provides for the removing of all Complaints for the future, but contains a general Acknowledgment of our Right to Satisfaction for what is past.

In that Article, my Lords, we find "that the adjusting and regulating the Pretenfions for reciprocal Reparations of the Damages already fuftained, and, above all, to find out Means to prevent the like Causes of Complaint for the future, and to remove abfolutely, and for ever, every thing which might give Occafion thereto, is acknowledged to be the only Means of establishing, on a lafting Foundation, the ancient Friendship fo defirable and neceffary' for the reciprocal Interest of both Empires, particularly with regard to Commerce." This I am perfuaded your Lordships will agree to be the Point which our Miniftry ought to have had principally in view, and i