tution, and that it is contrary to every principle of right and juftice, that individuals fhould be permitted to fend into that House 2, 4, or 6 members of parliament, to make a traffic of venal boroughs, as if they were houfhold utenfils. Is the conftitution of this country the fame it was originally? There is no man but knows it is not. Will any man be found to say, the innovations made in it are for the better, or were he to fay fo, could he establish the pofition? If all mankind confefs that the conftitution has been perverted, what could prevent an enquiry into how it was invaded? He knew nothing but private intereft to ftand in the way of this examination. When he was firft fpoken to on this fubject, it was clear to him from the numberlefs obftacles in the way, that it could never be effected but by the ardent interpofition of the whole body of the nation; he therefore received the propofition with coolnefs, and weighed carefully every circumftance, to fee if there exifted the leaft impropriety in it. The people thought him at beft a lukewarm friend, and fome, very poffibly, a fecret enemy to the measure. But when he faw the great body of the people in favour of the measure-when he faw a certain defcription of men in fupport of it, whom he fhall ever efteem, and who ought not to be difparaged here, while the Houfe of Commons is the feat of legiflation, it was not pofiible for him to with-hold his affent. To this defcription the nation fhould long remember the debt of obligation it owes; to men of as great virtue as ever ornamented this or any other country, who will be refpected while time shall lait; he mentioned these things left they fhould be thought to make any alteration in the conftitution, for the fact was they wanted not to caufe an alteration but a restoration of the conftitution. There are alfo fome circumftances of an external nature which fhew the neceffity of this measure, and the probability of attaining it. It feems a point agreed upon in England, that a parliamentary reform is neceffary; he fhould mention, he faid, the opinion given by Lord Chatham, upon whose pofthumous fame the prefent adminiftration fo firmly stands defended by the nation, though that great and illuftrious man had been neglected for ten years by the public, and fo large a portion of his valuable life fuffered to be loft to the community. What were his fentiments on this important matter? His words moft ftrongly enforce its neceflity, in his anfwer to the address of the city of London, in which he faid, that a reform in parliament was abfolutely neceffary, in order to infufe freth vigour into the conftitution, and that rotten boroughs ought to be ftruck away. A decifion in England has established this doctrine.Lord John Cavendish the late Chancellor of the Exchequer fupported it, and the borough of Shoreham's measure was intended to be made general. When it was determined against that bo

rough, no man thought it an innovation, as it had departed from the original principles of the conftitution. With respect to the two great members of the House of Commons in England, now at the head of two powerful interefts, between which that country is divided, we fee them agreed on the neceffity of a parliamentary reform. No man will fay, they agree in this point, merely for the fake of agreeing; but we know their fentiments are alike on the expediency of it, and he had fome reason to think they will perfevere in this union of opinion. Will any one affirm our reprefentation in Ireland, is more complete than that of England, though they have not been fo loud and uniform in their declarations on that head? But we may infer what the fense of that nation is from the two great men increafing in popularity adopting it; as they would not have done fo if they thought the people not inclined to the principle. The difference of fentiment that at prefent fubfifts between the reprefentative and conftituent of Great Britain, he adduced as another ftrong proof of the neceffity of fome reform. It could not be denied that the majority without doors, are in favour of the minifter, as the majority in parliament are for his antagonist. Whence arofe thofe unfortunate differences, but from the prefent defective representation?

Much argument had been drawn against the measure from the people's overawing this House; but he asked gentlemen, if they had not known many benefits to have refulted from the people's interference with their reprefentatives? Let them go back to Lord Carlifle's and fome other administrations before him; was not parliament in direct oppofition to the fentiments of the people, and had not they reafon to change their opinions in fubfequent adminiftrations, when the fentiments of people without doors overturned thofe of people within. They recovered your authority, continued he-Do you reftore them their privileges. You state, and state it truly, that it is the nation which has begun this measure; and you also ftate that you are now in the recent poffeffion of a free conftitution, and that you will not find fault with the conftitution. But is not this to tell England, that every thing that has been done by this country, proceeded from the fame channel and was liable to the fame objections? A body of men had been mentioned, he faid, as having vitiated the principle by their interference-a body of men that ought always to be mentioned with refpect in that Houfe, while it continued to enjoy the confequence it had acquired from their exertions. But would any man fay, that the principle is to be condemned, becaufe a particular fet of men had, agreeing with the whole world, approved of the measure? If this were once admitted, it would alfo vitiate the refolutions of the convention at Dungannon, in which that House, and the

nation afterwards concurred, because they were unanimous in voting that fuch refolutions were agreeable to the whole body of the people. The root was at Dungannon, and if this was to vitiate, that root was vitiated, and every thing founded on it must be also vitiated. This appeared to him to be an argument of abfurdity mixed with ingratitude, little becoming this nation at any time, and much lefs fo at this particular period. He had now endeavoured to fhew that no novelty was intendedthat nothing was intended but to reftore the conftitution to a reasonable degree of perfection-and that a reform could be the only adequate meafure. He begged leave to obferve, that the administration of England, which muft always maintain an influence here, was in the highest degree convinced of its neceffity. One of the most confiderable members of that administration had declared to the world, that he was the advocate of a greater equality of reprefentation, Were he of that country he would have made a permanent effort there; but as he was of this country, he would make an effort to reftore the conftitution to a juft balance, and not to forego thofe rights we had fo lately obtained. He then moved for leave to bring in a bill to rectify certain defects in the reprefentation of the people.

Right Hon. William Brownlow faid, this business had been originally brought forward with many advantages in its favour, from the affiftance it received from the Hon. Gentleman's abilities. On that account, notwithstanding he had intended to make this. motion, he thought proper to leave that part to him, and content himfelf with feconding it. It was high time they took fome steps for quieting the minds of the people. There was a number of petitions now lying on their table, prefented to this House to remedy the defects in our parliamentary reprefentation. The bill that would be offered to their confideration, would contain a full, if not a perfect plan for a more equal reprefentation of the people in parliament. It would contain fome ground for effecting that defirable meafure, though the plan might not be fo perfect as they might make it. To acquire that degree of perfection, he hoped to meet with àffiftance from every fide of the House. He could not fuppofe that any oppofition would be given, as every ground of former oppofition was done away; fince the measure came now recommended by the general voice of the nation.They could not frame the bill, till they had leave from the House to bring it in. He could therefore give but a concife account of what the nation expected from it.

That the people should have a real and not a nominal reprefentation.

That the unjuft privileges of boroughs fhould be abolished. That the election of their reprefentatives fhould be in the body of the people. And,

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That corruption fhould be checked in the elected as well as the elector.

He did not want to abridge the privileges of parliament, nor to effect any change in the church, or in any department of the ftate he hoped therefore no gentleman would difapprove of the principle of the bill, but rather lend his affiftance to it. They were charged yesterday with tardinefs in not applying fooner for leave to bring on this meafure; but it was paying no more than due refpect to the nation to wait for their petitions, which were for fome time paft coming in, in favour of the bill; to the number of which every day ftill added more. Out of respect to the prefent adminiftration he muft fay, that he had every reafon for expecting every fupport from them, as they had manifefted a greater difpofition to meet the wishes of the people than ever before experienced by this country. Our prefent chief governor had a large fhare of popularity. The voice of the nation was with him and his connexions, and he could inform gentlemen, that it would be his own fault, or the fault of his advifers, if ever he forfeited it. Many advantages would accrue to the nation by his retracting from, not only the other errors of his prede-ceffor, but particularly from his diírefpectful deportment towards the volunteers, which he hoped would no longer be made a court fyftem. The power of government would no longer, he trusted, be opposed to this measure, as that oppofition would no longer be able to bear it down with the infult and violence hitherto ufed. The Irish nation only wanted to fupport its independence by restoring to the conftitution, the proper degree of democratic influence in the great fcale of public government. He therefore hoped, that the bill would receive here that fupport it had already received from fome of the moft illuftrious characters exifting. As to the former determination of the House, on this queftion, it ought to have no influence on the prefent occafion. An Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Flood) had told them the fentiments of another country were favourable to a parliamentary reform; he knew the fentiments of this to be equally fo. Though gentlemen may differ in other refpects, he could not conceive they would difagree as to the neceflity of this measure, and he would no longer trouble the House, but fecond the motion of his Hon. Friend,

The Attorney General.-When the gentlemen who propose this bill make a propofition in the character in which I have long known and respected them, I fhall always treat it with the utmost deference and attention; but, Sir, I did on a former occafion oppose a fimilar motion, because, though difavowed, I knew it came from an armed body of men. I knew that they had fat in committee where it was debated, and it was notorious that in obedience to the order of that armed body, they brought it in to

this Houfe: It was notorious that the Honourable and Right Honourable Gentlemen were joined in commiffion for that purpose, though they did difavow it; and if any man cr any child had entertained a doubt that they acted under the authority of an armed convention, their declaration when they returned to that convention," that they had, in obedience to their directions, propofed the bill," proves the fact to a demonftration. So it appears they were oppofed on that day, on the notoriety of their commiffion, against the evidence of their affertion. On that ground I oppofed them, and I should do the fame now were they in the fame characters; but as they are in their proper characters, they are entitled to all refpect, and I will give their measure a fair and full difcuffion; and that the people may be convinced of the abfurdity of their purfuit, I will freely debate the propofition; though upon any other occafion I would oppofe the entertaining for a moment, the idea of any error or imperfection in the conftitution of Ireland; and though, if it thall be negatived, I thall probably move to have the proceeding expunged from our journals.

ters;

Mr. Brownlow faid, he did not want to appear in two charachis conduct in that House was always fteady, and uniform. It was left to the Houfe to adopt or reject the bill, as no man can pretend to deny, that they brought it forward as their own act. Before he fat down, he begged leave to obferve, that some expreffions had dropped from the Right Hon. Gentleman, which were rather harsh.

The Attorney General faid, he should be extremely forry to ufe any harth expreffions that could by any conftruction be made to relate to the Right Hon. Gentleman, for whofe perfon and character he entertained the higheft refpect; but begged leave ftill to infift on it, that the Right Hon, and Hon. Gentlemen did difavow their coming with that bill from the national convention, and for the truth of it, appealed to the recollection of the House. It was notorious that the bill had been debated clause by clause, in a committee, and that the gentlemen were joined in commiffion, by order of that affembly, to introduce it here.

Mr. Flood faid, he fhould only fay a few words, in reply to what fell from his Right Hon. Friend, (the Attorney General) but with all refpect should differ from him. It had been faid, they were joined in a commiffion by the convention. This was an affertion impollible to be proved, as they had never received any. The Right Honourable Gentleman's ideas were fo legal, they were often erroneous. Could not gentlemen talk an hour or two without a commiffion? Was nothing to be done but by patent? Was the great feal of the convention neceffary to be affixed to a commifiion, to order them to come to the Houfe of Commons? In the preparation of a bill for parliament, was it never known that