SENATE.] Reports on the Post Office. [JUNE 11, 1834. been preceded by the same information conveyed through should not have made the frank reply he had, if he had the newspapers. Mr. W. said, this closed all he had to say in relation to the question properly before the Senate. He felt bound, however, to reply to some remarks from the honorable Senator from North Carolina, [Mr. MANGUM,] of a charac. ter, so far as he was able to discover, not in any way connected with the subject under discussion. He hoped he should not be held out of order, as he would pledge himself to the Senate to confine his reply strictly to the remarks made, and to be as brief as possible. not understood the allusion to have been made in good temper and in good feeling. He could not say who were this frightful body, called the Albany Regency. At home it was wholly undefined. Here it seemed to have taken a definite shape, and in that shape it was that he had spoken of the individuals. He intended to have fulfilled his engagement to the honorable Senator, and to have given him the introduction be wished; but, on the morning after the request, all the gentlemen, save one, a member of the Senate of New York, left town, and, as The Albany Regency had been again introduced upon he, Mr. W., supposed that the gentleman's curiosity the floor of the Senate, and a private conversation of his would be wholly disappointed if he failed to see the in reference to that undefined body, had been referred to, group, he did not call upon the honorable Senator and which demanded a reply. He had now concluded to make put him to the trouble to visit the hotel for the mere the reply which, upon a former occasion, he had refrain- purpose of seeing the single individual that remained; ed from making, because the subject was too painful to though he could assure him and the Senate, that that his feelings, and because he did not then consider the in- gentleman would have been found intelligent, gentle troduction of the subject into the Senate as authorizing, manly, and in every sense worthy of his acquaintance and from him, any extended remarks. Now, to quiet all ap- respect. prehension from any quarter, he said he had concluded to Mr. W. said he had himself, for several years, been hon give a full statement of the facts, and to leave to the Sen-ored with a reputed membership in this body, called the ate and the public its pertinency here, and its importance Albany Regency; and he had not been sensible, during any any where. portion of the period, of any change, moral or political, He would not undertake to be precise as to time, but, wrought upon him by the association. It gave him pleas as his recollection was, within the last month the Attorney ure to state that all the individuals who were most comGeneral of his State, a gentleman of high standing as a monly designated as his Regency associates, while this re citizen, of such standing at the bar of the State as to en-puted connexion continued, were men of the first standing title him to the office he had received, by a very unani-as to capacity and integrity, and none stood stronger with mous vote of the State Legislature, and in all respects a the people of the State. worthy individual, had, after a most laborious official em- New York tactics, too, Mr. W. said, had, upon the ployment of more than four months, during the annual present occasion, been the subject of remark. He presession of the Legislature, and with health seriously im-sumed he must have been a baď scholar in this branch of paired during the time of the prevalence of that fearful the so-much-dreaded New York politics, for he could as pestilence, the cholera, in the city of Albany, in the sum- sure the honorable Senator, that, so far as tactics, drill, mer of 1832, and not yet restored, left his residence and discipline, or management, were evidenced by action, he travelled to this city, mainly for the benefit of his health. had never seen, any where, stronger evidences of a perMr. W. said he was not aware that any individual accom- fect system, than he had uniformly witnessed in this panied the Attorney General, who had excited alarm chamber, and prevailing in full force with those who difhere. Some two days after him, the printer of the State, fered with him here, and who were the opponents of the two of the members of the Senate of the State, and one administration. of the circuit judges of the State, came on together from Mr. WILKINS said, I am not going to speak of the Althe city of New York to this city, and here they united bany Regency, or of New York tactics, nor of the bank, with the Attorney General at the same hotel, and, for nor of nullification, nor of the force bill. I hope, for the some two or three days, remained fellow-lodgers at the sake of harmony, we shall let those topics alone. Nor same house. These five individuals, thus situated, at once will I speak of internal improvement, or of the American obtained in the Senate the appellation of the "Albany system; I am too much attached to those two objects to Regency;" but whether they obtained that appellation talk much about them. I will merely say that I shall vote elsewhere, he was unable to say. His first information of in the negative of the proposition now before the Senate, the existence of the reputed body in this city was obtain- because I think it an extravagant waste of the public ed in his seat, and by the introduction of this "Regency" money. To print so great a number of copies, would be into this hall. At the time, the circumstance gave him to throw upon the hands of honorable Senators more than unpleasant feelings, as all the individuals were personal they could possibly distribute at this late period of the friends, men whom he had long known, and who, from session. I am willing, for the sake of disseminating personal knowledge, he could say, were gentlemen of knowledge-an object which comes home to every man character, patriotism, intelligence, and integrity, second in society-to vote for six, eight, or ten thousand copies. to no men he did know; and he would make no exception I differ from many of my friends, as to the expediency of circulating so many of these documents in pamphlet form. It was true, that, after the mention of these individuals I know that they will be highly prized by a vast portion in the Senate, the honorable Senator from North Carolina [Mr. MANGUM] came to him, Mr. W., in the recess of the Senate, and the conversation was held which the honorable gentleman had truly recited. whatever. of the community. I am aware that many valuable documents are disseminated through the newspapers, espe cially those of a large size, which are costly, and can only be taken by those who are, comparatively speaking, [Here Mr. MANGUM explained. He said he would not wealthy. But those papers which are published in the say that he had recited the conversation truly. It was small villages, and circulated amongst the honest yeomanpartially jocose, and he had not laid it up in his recollec- ry-the farmers of Pennsylvania-are, from their small He had not referred to it from any ill feeling, but size, unable to contain such documents as we now propose he had entertained a curiosity as to that body, called the to print; therefore, these pamphlets will disseminate Albany Regency, and he had an anxiety to see the individ-knowledge among them in regard to the Post Office, in uals composing it.] the operations of which, almost every man in the commuMr. WRIGHT proceeded. He said he had not under-nity feels an interest. stood the honorable gentleman as referring to this subject from any ill feeling or personal disrespect, and he surely tion. Mr. W. then asked for the yeas and nays. JUNE 12, 1834.] Lyme (Conn.) Memorial.-Tompkins County (N. Y.) Memorial. [SENATE. was now about to give, would be different from that he not control, they would have borne them as becomes pafirst intended, and as he had intimated to the Senate the triots and Christians; but, considering it in the power of other day. When the proposition to print thirty thousand the National Legislature at once to remove these evils, copies of these documents was made by the Senator from the memorialists earnestly implore Congress to attend to North Carolina, [Mr. MANGUM,] he thought the number the subject, and restore the country to its wonted prostoo great. But, on hearing the remarks of gentlemen perity. yesterday and to-day, in which were statements on sub- The memorial was referred to the Committee on Fijects they could not possibly understand, without a prop-nance, and ordered to be printed. er examination of the documents, and under the belief that they could scarcely remember all that they heard read, and notwithstanding made declarations certainly very incorrect, he was willing to vote for printing the whole number proposed. He wanted to correct these misapprehensions and misstatements, and what was the best corrective? Why, it was to throw the whole subject before the people; and odious as these extras of the Department had become, he would, for the benefit of his friend on his right, [Mr. MANGUM,] even vote for the printing of extras upon extras of these reports. He would therefore vote for the whole thirty thousand copies, though he still believed the number too great. TOMPKINS COUNTY (N. Y.) MEMORIAL. Mr. WEBSTER presented the memorial of nine hundred and thirty-seven citizens and electors of Tompkins county, in the State of New York. The memorial, he said, was short, and to the point. The signers declared"That they have for several years past, and until the last six months, enjoyed, in common with the people of the United States, great and increasing prosperity. Trade and commerce flourished; agriculture, manufactures, and all mechanic skill yielded a fair profit to industry and ingenuity; the currency of our country was considered safe, and a sufficient supply was in circulation for all business The question was now taken on printing thirty thou-transactions. This state of prosperity continued until the sand copies of the report of the committee, and the unfortunate "experiment" of removing the public monstatement of the minority, and decided in the affirmative, eys, which has brought ruin and dismay to many of our as follows: most enterprising citizens, and loss and inconvenience to YEAS.—Messrs. Bell, Bibb, Calhoun, Chambers, Clay- all. The produce of the agriculturist does not yield an ton, Ewing, Frelinghuysen, Grundy, Kent, Knight, adequate return for his labor; the enterprise of the Leigh, Linn, Mangum, Naudain, Poindexter, Preston, merchant is paralyzed; the manufacturer, artist, and laRobbins, Robinson, Silsbee, Smith, Southard, Sprague, borer, look in vain for their accustomed business and the Swift, Tomlinson, Tyler, Webster.-26. reward of their toil. Your memorialists, witnessing the NAYS.-Messrs. Benton, Black, Brown, Forsyth, deranged state of the currency, and the general prostraHendricks, Hill, King of Alabama, King of Georgia, Morris, Shepley, Tallmadge, White, Wilkins, Wright.-14. On motion of Mr. CLAYTON, the printing of the documents was ordered to be done under the direction of the committee. The Senate then adjourned. THURSDAY, JUNE 12. LYME (CONN.) MEMORIAL. Mr. TOMLINSON presented a memorial signed by a large number of inhabitants of the town of Lyme, in the county of New London, and State of Connecticut, condemning the removal of the public deposites, and praying that Congress would speedily re-charter the national bank, with suitable modifications, and replace the public funds in its custody. tion of business, call upon you, as their agents, who possess the power to give them relief. The constitution has vested you with ample power, and your memorialists call upon you to exercise it for the relief of your constituents. We are no bank applicants-we ask for a national currency placed beyond the power of any one man, with which to try experiments. This will restore confidence, and money will circulate in its accustomed channels. Business-men, and all, will be cheered at the prospect of returning prosperity. With the hope that some measure may be immediately adopted, they pray," &c. The county of Tompkins, Mr. W. said, was an inland county; he had not had the pleasure of visiting it, but knew its interests to be the great interests of the country. The memorialists were not bank men; not men who were panic makers, nor men who are panic struck. They ask Congress to look to the interests of the people, and act With several of the memorialists, Mr. T. said he was wisely for the whole country, and they are confident their acquainted; and he had great pleasure in saying that they own interests will then be safe. They demand a safe were highly respectable, and entitled to the public confi-currency; they desire security for property, and encourdence. They state that formerly the population of New agement to labor. London county was composed principally of farmers; but Mr. President, we have now received memorials, lathat, within a few years, large investments had been menting and deprecating the course of Government, from made in manufactories, and in the whaling business; that, almost every quarter of the Union. Notwithstanding the until near the close of the last year, their agricultural, signs which some branches of the Government manifest, manufacturing, and commercial interests, had been con- to resist all change in the present unhappy and disastrous stantly improving; that every industrious man could find state of things, and notwithstanding the near approach of employment; that there was a ready demand for the prod- the end of the session, these memorials continue to make uce of their diversified labors; that money was suffi- their appearance daily. I hardly know, sir, when any ciently abundant, the circulating medium equal to gold one act of the administration has spread so widely, and and silver; and that their county presented an almost un-affected so universally, the daily comfort and prosperity interrupted scene of thriving and contented industry. of a whole community. The circumstance proves how The memorialists further represent that, within a short intimately the happiness of all its members is blended with period, they have witnessed in that county a most distress- the operation of law, and how deeply Government is reing and unexpected change, laborers without employ-sponsible for the happiness of society. ment, manufactories shut up, the products of industry The memorial was ordered to be printed. selling at prices ruinously low, and credit annihilated, After the reception of sundry reports of committees, which they deem the natural results of the ill-judged and disposing of some resolutions and billsmeasures and rash experiment of the Executive, in relation to the national currency. They add, that if the evils they suffer and deplore, in common with others, had been produced by any cause which human agency could The Senate, on motion of Mr. WILKINS, proceeded to the consideration of Executive business; and, after remaining for some hours with closed doors, The Senate adjourned. SENATE.] Lord Stirling's Heirs.-French Spoliations. FRIDAY, JUNE 13. LORD STIRLING'S HEIRS. The bill for the relief of William A. Duer, John Duer, and Beverly Robinson, heirs of Lord Stirling, was read, considered as in Committee of the Whole, and the report and documents were read. [JUNE 13, 1834. ment, and not Congress; that if New Jersey had paid the debt, it would have been placed to her credit by Congress. He thought the whole default was in Congress and the State of New Jersey, and that Congress were, therefore, bound to pay both principle and interest, in accordance with an obligation (which Mr. L. read) to that effect. Mr. MOORE stated that Lord Stirling was a meritori- Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN vindicated the State of New ous officer in the Revolution, and that application was now Jersey from having acted in any way improperly in this made for part of his compensation which had not been matter. Mr. F. read an extract from the deed of trust, paid, by the trustees of the estate of Sarah Alexander, for the purpose of showing that the State of New Jersey deceased, his only heir, in pursuance of a resolution of had nothing to do with the subject, but that it was an Congress. The bill was reported to the Senate, with amendments. Mr. KING, of Georgia, opposed the bill, on the ground that the claim was not good, and had been several times rejected by the Legislature of New Jersey. affair entirely between the trustees of Lord Stirling, and his lordship himself. Under a general act, the trustees were directed to sell the property of Lord Sterling to pay his debts, and if any thing remained, after that had been done, it was to be transmitted to his lordship. The Mr. SMITH advocated the bill, and argued that the trustees, in this case, applied, in the year 1780, to the Legislature of New Jersey had no right to act on the Legislature, and stated that all the debts of Lord Stirling claim; that the claim was valid by a resolution of Con-had been paid; that a large sum remained still in their gress, and that it had never been paid; that the debt was hands, and that they wished to be instructed in the dis most meritorious and beyond all controversy; that the posal of it. The Legislature, knowing the law upon this claim of the heir was at all times as good as that of the subject, viz. that after an individual's debts had been original creditor; that the bond given by Lord Stirling liquidated, the remaining sum ought to be remitted to to the State, was considered as cancelled by the immense him, declined to interfere in the matter. The trustees sacrifices on the sale of his property; and even if it was afterwards offered to put the money into the Treasury of not, Congress had no right to present this bond, in plea the United States, but the Treasurer refused to receive it; for the non-payment of an honest debt; that Congress saying that it was a matter entirely between them (the was, therefore, bound, in default of payment by the State trustees) and Lord Stirling. of New Jersey, to pay the debt; that after the sale of Lord Stirling's property, the trustees reported that his debts had been paid, and they had a large amount of money remaining; paper money being then, by a law of the State, a legal tender. The Legislature made no re- Mr. CLAY advocated the motion, on the ground that it ply until they had repealed this law, and rendered the made no difference with the Government, and that the money useless. Mr. S. commented strongly on the hard-issuing of scrip in this way was likely to be disadvantaship and unfairness of this proceeding. In 1806, after geous to the claimants, and so present a strong temptation repeated applications, which were disregarded, the Le- to speculate in scrip, before persons in public offices. gislature, for the first time, came out with the old bond, Mr. WHITE also spoke in favor of the motion, and of to cancel Lord Stirling's claim on Congress for compen- the applicants, as the descendants of a much-loved and sation. Mr. S. considered this bond as entirely cancelled most meritorious officer. by the circumstances which he had stated. He thought a claim was never more just, and that the principle on which it rested was strong and unquestionable. Mr. PORTER argued that, if Congress did not pay Lord Stirling's claim, it was liable to be called on by the State of New Jersey, and could not escape the payment| of this honest debt. He thought Congress would most properly pay the heirs of the claimant, and let the State look to them for what might be due from them to the State. The debate upon this bill was further continued by Messrs. LEIGH, SOUTHARD, FORSYTH, and others. Mr. SPRAGUE moved to amend the bill by striking out "land scrip," and inserting "money." Mr. SPRAGUE's amendment was adopted. The bill was then ordered to be engrossed for a third reading. FRENCH SPOLIATIONS. The CHAIR having announced as the special order, the bill to provide for the satisfaction of claims due to certain citizens for spoliations committed on their commerce by the French, prior to the 30th of September, 1800— follows: Mr. FORSYTH, after some remarks, moved to postMr. KING, of Georgia, specified the particular cases pone the bill until the first Monday in December next. and circumstances in which this claim had been rejected. After some remarks from Messrs. CHAMBERS, WERHe thought the judgment of the New Jersey Legislature STER, and POINDEXTER, the question was taken, and on the subject ought to be considered decisive. He re- the motion to postpone was decided in the negative, as marked, how easily a claim might be got up after such a lapse of time. His chief object, however, was to prevent the allowance of interest, in accordance with the usual practice of Government, where its own agents were not in fault. The delay of payment, he thought, was owing to the neglect of the parties interested. Mr. LEIGH argued in favor of the bill, and more particularly confirmed the statements made by Mr. SMITH. Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN, in explanation, said, that New Jersey presented no claim here, and interposed no objection to the allowance of the claim; and though the money was reported to be in the hands of the trustees who sold the property, no legal tender of it had been made to the State. YEAS.--Messrs. Benton, Bibb, Black, Brown, Calhoun, Forsyth, Grundy, Hendricks, Hill, Kane, King of Ala., King of Geo., Tallmadge, Tyler, White, Wright.-16. NAYS.--Messrs. Bell, Chambers, Clay, Clayton, Frelinghuysen, Kent, Knight, Leigh, Linn, McKean, Moore, Naudain, Poindexter, Prentiss, Preston, Robbins, Robinson, Shepley, Silsbee, Smith, Southard, Sprague, Swift, Tomlinson, Webster, Wilkins.-26. On motion of Mr. POINDEXTER, the bill was then postponed to, and made the order of the day for Tuesday next. The bill to amend an act for the payment of horses and arms lost in the military service of the United States Mr. LEIGH stated further, that the money was lost against the Indians, on the frontiers of Illinois and the both to the State and Lord Stirling. He observed that Michigan Territory, passed the 19th of February, 1835, the act of limitation in regard to the payment of such was, after a debate, on motion of Mr. CLAYTON, postclaims, was designed to control the officers of Govern-poned to, and made the order of the day for to-meriew JUNE 14, 1834.] William Shaler.-James Fife.-Interest to States for Advances. On motion of Mr. PORTER, the Senate proceeded to the consideration of Executive business; and when the doors were opened, adjourned. SATURDAY, JUNE 14. WILLIAM SHALER. On motion of Mr. TOMLINSON, the bill for granting pensions to persons therein named, was taken up. [SENATE. him or not; but in the case before the Senate, the presumption appeared to Mr. P. to be, that the applicant was retained in the army from motives of favor to him, and probably in consideration of his meritorious services. The further answer was, that, if the resignation of the applicant had been accepted when first tendered, he would have received only one-half the amount he actually did obtain by continuing in the service: in other words, he had received double the sum he would have been en The question being on striking out of the second sec-titled to as a pensioner. tion the name of William Shaler A Mr. P. said he did not profess to be very familiar with Mr. TOMLINSON stated the history of the case of subjects of this sort, but it appeared to him to be repugWilliam Shaler. This was an application for the payment nant to principle, as well as new and unprecedented in of a pension from 1814 to 1827. In the opinion of the practice, to allow a pension to any one while in the sercommittee, such an extension of the pension act would be vice and receiving his pay as an officer or soldier. improper. During a great portion of the time, the ap- pension was not granted as a compensation for a wound plicant received the full pay of a lieutenant, and was ulti-or injury received, for that was one of the risks assumed imately promoted to a captaincy. He submitted this case on entering into the service; but upon the ground that for the consideration of the Senate. If this application the individual, by reason of the wound or injury, was unwere to be allowed, it would establish a precedent on fit for military service, and unable to obtain a subsistence which innumerable claims would be founded, and if the by labor, and he ought not to be thrown upon the world money asked for were paid to Shaler, it would be as without some provision for his support. The principle, justly due to others. It was not a question merely in ref- thus understood, Mr. P. admitted was founded in the erence to this individual, but to every officer and to every clearest policy and justice; but it ought not to be extendsoldier in the army at that time, and even go back to the ed beyond what policy and justice require. If it was exarmy of the Revolution. The sum claimed now would tended, as proposed in the bill, it would not only go beyond amount to about four thousand dollars; and if the request should be complied with, it would be throwing open the doors of the Treasury, and it would be impossible to tell where it might end. He did not think it just. Mr. EWING was of opinion, that if justice were done to the officer, he would have the allowance made to him. The case of revolutionary pensions rested on other grounds altogether. He spoke of the merits of the individual, and stated the fact that his continuance in the army after having been wounded, deprived him of the opportunity of devoting his time or talents to some more lucrative employment. Mr. WRIGHT called for the yeas and nays on the question. Mr. PRENTISS said it appeared, as had been stated, that the person named in the provision of the bill under consideration, was an officer in the army of the United States, and, on his retirement from the service, became entitled to, and received a pension as an invalid. The bill proposed to go back to a period anterior to the applicant's discharge from the army, and to allow him a pension for several years while he was in the service, and actually receiving full pay as an officer of the rank to which he belonged. what had been the policy and practice of the Government, but would probably open the way to numerous other applications of the kind, and occasion an expenditure, the extent of which could not be foreseen. Mr. CLAYTON and Mr. TOMLINSON mutually replied. Mr. KANE thought it inconsistent that an officer, receiving full pay for his services, should also be entitled, at the same time, to a pension. It was a principle which was never acted upon in this or in any other country. Mr. CHAMBERS supported the amendment. On the question being taken, the amendment was agreed to, by the following vote: YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Bibb, Black, Calhoun, Frelinghuysen, Grundy, Hendricks, Hill, Kane, King of Alabama, King of Georgia, Knight, Leigh, Linn, McKean, Mangum, Moore, Morris, Poindexter, Porter, Prentiss, Preston, Robinson, Shepley, Silsbee, Smith, Swift, Tipton, Tomlinson, Tyler, Webster, White, Wilkins, Wright.--34. NAYS. Messrs. Chambers, Clayton, Ewing, Kent, Naudain, Robbins, Southard, Waggaman.-8. After some other amendments, striking out the name of William P. Shaw and others, the bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time. JAMES FIFE. The bill for the relief of James Fife, a Creek Indian, was next taken up. The main argument urged in support of the provision of the bill, appeared to Mr. P. to be more specious than solid. It was said that the pension is to commence only from the time the applicant offered to resign his commisWhen this bill was read the third time, it was opposed sion; that, if his resignation had been accepted when offered, he would have been immediately placed upon initely, and, after a debate, in which Messrs. POINDEXby Mr. POINDEXTER, who moved to postpone it indefthe pension roll, and some other person must have been appointed to supply his place in the army; that, in that TER, PRESTON, WHITE, MOORE, and FRELINGcase, the Government would have been obliged to ad- HUYSEN, took part, the question was taken on Mr. POINDEXTER'S motion, by yeas and nays, and lost, as follows: vance the applicant his pension, and also the regular pay YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Black, Brown, Calhoun, Hill, to the person appointed to fill his place in the army; and the argument was, that, by the provision in the bill, the King of Alabama, King of Georgia, Leigh, Mangum, PoinGovernment would be subjected to no greater expendi-dexter, Preston, Robbins, Wright.-13. NAYS.-Messrs. Benton, Bibb, Chambers, Clay, Freture than it must have incurred, if the resignation of the applicant had been accepted when first presented. Tolinghuysen, Grundy, Hendricks, Kent, Knight, Linn, this argument, Mr. P. said, there were, to his mind, two McKean, Moore, Naudain, Porter, Prentiss, Robinson, very satisfactory answers. The first was, that the appli- Shepley, Silsbee, Smith, Southard, Swift, Tallmadge, cant did not in fact resign, or, rather, his resignation was Tipton, Tomlinson, Waggaman, White.-26. The bill was then passed without a division. not accepted, but he submitted to continue in the service, INTEREST TO STATES FOR ADVANCES. receiving his pay as an officer. It was to be taken for granted, that when a person accepts a commission in the The bill to provide for the final settlement of claims for army, he contracts to serve until he is regularly dischar-interest to the several States for services during the late ged, and it was optional with the Government to discharge war, was next considered; when, VOL. X. 126 SENATE.] Interest to States for Advances. [JUNE 14, 1834. Mr. HILL rose and said: This bill is for the payment of years ago, that vigilant and faithful officer who has had interest on the claims of the several States, for money ad- much to do in the settlement of these accounts, the Third vanced and services rendered, during the late war with Auditor, was requested to make a calculation of what would Great Britain. Not only does it introduce a new principle then be the amount which would be due on the bill allowin the computation of interest, but it opens accounts which ing the States interest which then passed both Houses of have been settled many years since; and which most of Congress. He answered that it was impossible to tell, as the States had considered as finally closed. there were no data in his Department by which it could be ascertained at what time interest should commence. did, however, attempt a rough estimate, and from this he supposed the amount in that bill then due would exceed one million three hundred thousand dollars. His estimate, undoubtedly, was below the mark. He There are some claims in most of the States which have been rejected by the rules adopted for the settlement of the army accounts. It is believed that the Government has been extremely liberal in allowing these claims; and that the States have little cause to complain of those parts of their claims which have been denied. This law, Mr. President, will reverse the usual order of things-it will place those claims, which are of doubtful merit, in a better position than those about which there is no doubt; because those claims which have been longest delayed are the claims which will be best paid. It is to be remarked, that, in settling the several claims of the States, a uniform principle of allowance was pursued at the Treasury Department; that the claims passed the scrutiny of the accounting officers, under the super intendence of agents especially appointed on behalf of the States; and that the claims about which there was little doubt, were allowed at once, or as soon as they could be examined. In making these settlements, more or less of the claims were disallowed. The claims were not, in all instances, for money advanced by the States. Volunteer militia frequently turned out in cases of alarm, and were in service for a short period only. These, and other services, were performed, in many instances, with no expect ation of charging either the State or the United States. But, as was natural, when it was understood that payment would be assumed by the General Government, the several States made up their accounts, embracing services and Since the commencement of the present administration, expenses of every kind, including as well those expendi-a portion of the claim which has long been preferred by tures that were unauthorized, as those that were author- Massachusetts, amounting to something like half a million ized by the General Government. It is believed that the of dollars, has been allowed by Congress and paid. If allowances ultimately made were considered by most of interest shall be allowed on that allowance, the amount to the States to be very liberal. be paid will be greater than that which has been already It will be remarked, that these State claims do not pre-paid. But this is not all-Massachusetts holds behind a sent as strong an appeal to the public justice as do the still greater amount of claim. I believe her demand is claims of individuals, which were settled on similar prin- now about half a million of dollars more; and her interest ciples. The services were, in many instances, made for account at this time will be greater than the principal. the defence of the States themselves; and on the subject It is well recollected that the State of Massachusetts reof military defences, the several State Governments had a fused to call out her militia during the late war with Great joint interest with the Government of the United States. Britain, as they were required by a law of the GovernIt was not expected, in those cases where the service was ment. When that State was invaded by a foreign enemy, not especially ordered by the General Government, that she held herself back-she failed to drive that enemy from the United States would assume this expense as a matter her borders, when it was in her power to do it. Nay, it of course. It was a matter of grace that the United States seemed for a time that her real intention in calling out paid any part of such claims. Now, if interest is to be troops was rather to turn her arms against our own Govallowed on these claims, how strong must be the claims of ernment, than against the foreign enemy. The moral individuals who have had accounts settled on the same prin- sentiment of the country was shocked at the conduct of ciples? In many cases the sums allowed to States were the that State, sustained as the course of her Executive was claims of individuals-the States as such had never advan- by both her Legislature and her Judiciary. But, on the ced any thing; but, after the allowances were made to the principle of this bill, her claim will be better treated in States, these individuals, for the first time, received their the end than that of any other State. If she had obtained pay. Now, if the accounts shall be re-opened, and further the money years ago, she would not have had it in her allowances shall be made, will the States pay those indi- power to invest it at par in Government six per cent. viduals, according to their several claims, or will they stock; and of course it is better that until this time she retain the whole amount? has never been paid, if she shall get her whole claim in I cannot consent, Mr. President, to pay Massachusetts the enormous amount which this bill will give her. The amendment proposed by a Senator from that State, [Mr. SILSBEE, contemplates interest not only on what she has obtained, but on all she shall obtain hereafter. Let us for a moment reflect what will be the effect of the end. the precedent presented by this bill. If interest must be allowed to the States for expenditures in which the States had an equal interest with the United States; if settlements made fifteen or twenty years ago with the States, are to be opened at this time for the purpose of allowing such interest-can we hereafter deny to individuals who The bill which passed the Senate two years ago, and have had settlements made, and allowances paid, the re- was vetoed by the President, is, I believe, similar to the opening of their accounts? If we allow those settlements bill now under consideration. Had that bill become a law, with States to be opened for services during the last war, not only would millions have been drawn from the treasshall we not be bound to re-open the accounts of individu-ury to pay the interest on the principal sums which had als for any and every service and expenditure made by already been allowed, but the States would have pressed private individuals from the commencement of the war of the several items of account that had been justly disallow the Revolution to the present moment? We have, Mr. President, but commenced the payment of our national debt, if the principle adopted in this bill shall prevail. A hundred millions of dollars will not satisfy all the claims that may be made perhaps with equal justice as those which are allowed in this bill. ed. The State of Massachusetts, having seized with greedy eagerness on her half a million for interest on that part already allowed, would have further pressed her great claim, long held back, for the purpose of taking princi pal and interest on that also. I am myself a native of Massachusetts; and never in my As to how much will be immediately taken from the life did I converse with a sensible, honest democrat and treasury if this bill shall become a law, after diligent in- friend to his country, belonging to that State, on the subquiry, I have not been able to ascertain the amount. Twoject, who did not confess that the Government would be |