Question. What was the net result of that? Who had the money when they finished up? The Southwest Power Co. got the money for this; and it is a subsidiary of what?

Answer. The Southwestern Gas & Electric Co. gave and received the same amount of money and was not "out" anything of any

consequence.

Question. But the trade was for the Southwest Power Co. to get two and a quarter million in cash; was it not?

Answer. Yes.

Question. And what became of the two and a quarter million cash after the Southwest got it?

Answer. It gave it right back to the Southwestern Gas & Electric Co. for the Bartlesville properties.

Question. Yes.

Answer. And then it transferred these properties to the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma, with the result that the Southwestern Gas & Electric Co. held the stock of the Southwest Power Co., the Southwest Power Co. held a like number of shares of the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma, and the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma owned the property.

Question. And this was all there was to it?

Answer. Yes.

Question. Later on, what did the Southwest Power Co. do with some of this stock?

Answer. In December 1930 the Southwest Power Co. delivered 12,000 of those shares of common stock of the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma to the Southwestern Gas & Electric Co. and received therefor 12,000 shares of its own common stock, which was thereupon canceled.

The 12,000 shares of common stock of the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma, thus acquired by the Southwestern Gas & Electric Co., were immediately sold by it to the Central & South West Utilities Co. for $1,200,000 cash.

Question. So as that point the group top put up a million two hundred thousand?

Answer. Yes. These transactions vested ownership of the Bartlesville properties in the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma and left the Southwestern Gas & Electric Co. owning all of the capital stock of the Southwest Power Co., whose assets then consisted solely of 10,500 shares of common stock of the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma. Question. So that that is a sort of merry-go-round, is it? Answer. Yes.

Question. Now we come over to the year 1931. Were there acquisitions and trades made during that year?

Answer. Yes; there were.

Question. Tell us about them.

Answer. All of the common capital stock of the Dalhart Public Service Co. was acquired by the Central & South West Utilities Co. in May 1931 from the Inland Power & Light Corporation, whose stock was owned by the Commonwealth Light & Power Co., which was then a direct subsidiary of the Middle West Utilities Co.

The electric, water, and ice properties of the Dalhart Public Service Co., located in the Panhandle section of Texas, were then sold to

the West Texas Utilities Co., main operating subsidiary of the American Public Service Co.

Question. Let us pass on from these minor ones. Down at the end of the page here you tell about a law enacted in the State of Oklahoma.

Answer. There was such a law passed, making ice companies, as I understand it, subject to regulation, similar to other utilities, and accordingly the Peoples Ice Co. was organized, and to it were transferred, as of September 5, 1931, all of the ice properties previously owned and operated by the Public Service Co. of Oklahoma and its subsidiary, the Southwestern Light & Power Co. The Peoples Ice Co. thereupon became a direct subsidiary of the Central & South West Utilities Co.

Question. That Oklahoma ice case was carried to the Supreme Court. You refer also here to an Oklahoma statute prohibiting public utility companies from selling merchandise?

Answer. That is right. There is such a law.

Question. Is there a copy of that statute attached to this report?
Answer. No. I was told that there was such a law.
Question. All right then, we won't bother with that.

Now then, having thus briefly told of these acquisitions by these different groups in the Central & South West down to 1931, we come to the result as it appears at that time and which you told about when you first got on the stand when you were telling what the situation was at the end of 1931 as shown in this report on page 38? Answer. That is correct.

Question. Together with a long list of companies, some of the acquisitions of which you have described in your testimony and the names of which follow at pages 39 to 41, inclusive?

Answer. That is right.

Question. Leaving, then, the historical part of the acquisitions, we come next to your chapter II, which describes the properties, services, and policies, in section 1. In section 2 you have some comparative statistics, to show what, Mr. Depue?

Answer. The amount of fixed capital, electrical output, gross earnings, communities served, customers served, and transmission lines, during the respective years.

Question. They being what years?

Answer. 1926 to 1931, inclusive.

Question. Six years. I will ask you this: Except for the fact that in the last year, 1931, the electrical output and the number of customers served show a slight decrease, is it a fact that in the other items the increase over this 6-year period is fairly regular in percentage or amount?

Answer. That is true, except with respect to gross earnings, which also decreased in 1931.

Question. All right. In 1926, the fixed capital of the group stood at what?

Answer. $102,934,000, approximately.

Question. With a kilowatt-hour output for that year of what? Answer. 345,765,000.

Question. And the gross earnings?

Answer. $23,763,000.

Question. I take it that those earnings are very largely from dividends on subsidiaries and earnings resulting from operations; or are these the gross earnings of the operating companies consolidated?

Answer. The figures on page 44 refer to only the main operating subsidiaries of the Central & South West Utilities Co.

Question. And the figures are operating figures?

Answer. That is right.

Question. Continuing as to the 1926 operating figures, the number of communities served that year was what?

Answer. 378.

Question. And the number of customers?

Answer. 242,962.

Question. And the miles of transmission lines?

Answer. 3,540 miles.

Question. The fixed capital increased each year; did it not?
Answer. It did.

Question. Until, in 1931, the figure was what?

Answer. It amounted to $202,929,000.

Question. The electrical output had its high mark in what year?

Question. In fact, just a little over 1 percent of the generation of the country, as we know?

Answer. That is right.

Question. The gross earnings, however, were a little larger for 1929 than for 1930; were they not?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. The high watermark, then, of gross earnings in 1929 was what?

Answer. $34,752,000.

Question. This dropped to what figure in 1931?

Answer. $30,530,000.

Question. The number of communities served increased, indicating an extension, to what number in 1931?

Answer. 651.

Question. And the customers served were higher in number in 1929. How many were there?

Answer. 295,092.

Question. A loss of approximately 10,000 between the number that year and that in 1931; is that correct?

Answer. That is correct.

Question. What was the number of miles of transmission lines in 1931?

Answer. 8.966.

Question. When you have put down here the fixed capital figures for these operating companies, you are talking about the fixed capital figures on their books?

Answer. That is right.

Question. As to the validity of those or as to the character of plant which they represent, you are not here stating?

Answer. Not at this time.

Question. That is what I am talking about. Inasmuch, Mr. Depue, as there is no representative of the company present, I think it is fair, perhaps, to put in the record here the substance of what you say in section 5 of your report, which indicates that the company does not have the richest or most densely settled urban territory on its lines in the territory where this network is; is that correct?

Answer. That is right.

Question. To illustrate that, you show in this section 5 that in Texas these lines have only how many towns or cities of over 25,000 population?

Answer. Three.

Question. While there are cities in Texas of over 40,000 popula tion in what number?

Answer. Twelve.

Question. And of these, 3 are over 200,000?

Answer. That is right.

Question. The largest city served by the network of this group is what?

Answer. Tulsa, with a population of 141,000.

Question. And the next larger?

Answer. Shreveport, with 77,000.

Question. In Texas, Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio all have over 200,000?

Answer. That is right.

Question. In section 6 you have some statistics showing the population served, the area covered, the towns served, and the average population per town, and the average per square mile of customers; have you not?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. The totals, with the averages over all, show that the system served about how much population?

Answer. A million four hundred thousand.

Question. And the area?

Answer. An area of about 146,000 square miles.

Question. Not quite 10 per mile?

Answer. About nine and a half.

Question. That is including city areas; is it not?

Answer. Such as they had; yes.

Question. Nevertheless, it is including those. Now, in section 7 you take up the physical plant; do you not?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. It is an enumeration, more than anything else—not descriptive. How many main steam plants has the system? Answer. Thirteen.

Question. When I say "has", I am referring, of course, to the time you wrote the report, Mr. Depue. We understand that; do we not?

Answer. These particular figures are as shown by the company's records in 1932.

Question. These 13 steam plants had a capacity of how much? Answer. 207,750 kilowatts.

Question. They had six small hydros at that time; did they not? Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Whose aggregate capacity was what?

Answer. 6,900 kilowatts.

Question. And they had one active gas-engine plant, whose ca

pacity was what?

Answer. Whose capacity was 2,500 kilowatts.

Question. In addition to those, they also had 10 isolated plants, run with what?

Answer. Oil and gas engines.

Question. With a capacity of what?

Answer. 4,426 kilowatts.

Question. Do you happen to know what cities those plants were in? Answer. No; I would have to look that up.

Question. The map indicates that there are outlying, isolated electric plants. Up to the number of 10, those would be plants covered by this item "Oil and gas engines" here?

Answer. Yes, sir; these figures are all from the statistics of the company.

Question. Yes; we understand that they are all just as you got them from the records of the company. That makes a total of how many active plants in 1932?

Answer. Thirty.

Question. With an aggregate capacity of what?

Answer. 221,576 kilowatts.

Question. As distinguished from how many stand-by plants, total? Answer. Ninety-seven, with a kilowatt capacity of 48,858.

Question. How many of these stand-by plants were oil- and gasengine operated?

Answer. Eighty-four.

Question. And how many steam?

Answer. Thirteen.

Question. You have told us that these figures of plants rated as "active" and "stand-by

records?

Answer. That is right.

are as you picked them up from their

Question. Have you any later information?

Answer. I have an annual report of the company for 1932.

Question. Where is it?

Answer. It is here [producing].

Mr. CHANTLAND. Let this be marked with the next exhibit number. Examiner AVERILL. 5613 is the next number.

(The statement referred to was marked Commission's Exhibit No. 5613" for identification.)

By Mr. CHANTLAND:

Question. You are referring to the annual report of the Central & South West Utilities Co. for 1932, as printed, and which has now been marked "Exhibit No. 5613 ", when you say that you have it here?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Will you find the part of the report to which you refer as indicating that certain of the so-called "stand-by property should be considered as 66 abandoned property "?