partial, the noble lord had acted right; this was at once acknowledging that the loan was so made, for the very purpose the motion was directed to discover; and therefore it was not making use of an old-established source of influence, for the strength and support of government, but creating the means of influence never before thought of but in one single instance.

He then read the bonus on the omnium at the opening of the budgets of 1758, 1759, 1760, 1761, the last year of the Duke of Newcastle's administration, and 1762, during that of Lord Bute. The first of those years the bonus was but 1 on two millions, the next at 1 per cent. discount on four millions, the third at 1; the fourth about 1, though twelve millions were borrowed both years. This noble duke in all his loans had shewn, what it was the duty, and what the virtue of a minister to observe. This was a time of war, and it was the time which the friends of the present ministry thought proper to select and brand with the name of extravagance; and yet in all these times, it was not discovered, that douceurs on loans were among the sources of ministerial influence. Lord Bute's loan was the first instance of abandoned extravagance in this way. The principle was then introduced, and his was the only example to be found in the history of this country. At one time it rose, he believed, so high as 9 per cent., but then it was not the terms but the extraordinary advance upon the lottery tickets, which rose to four pounds ten shillings, on account that there were two lotteries that year. Thus it was clear, that the influence created by the loan was of modern invention, that never operated but once, and that partly from the reason he mentioned, and perhaps other unforeseen, adventitious causes.

After answering Mr. Adam very fully, and replying almost to every thing which had been urged on the other side, he recommenced a second attack upon the noble lord in the blue ribbon, reminding his lordship of having dared his honourable friend who seconded the motion, and now, when he accepted of the challenge, basely sneaking away, and covering himself from open shame, public detection and conviction, through the means of a servile and devoted majority. He then recapitulated all the leading heads of his speech, and called upon the noble lord to stand forth boldly, like a man, and defend himself, or by his silence confess that he was fairly convicted of having made an improvident and corrupt bargain in the character of public trustee, and of having prostituted the power of his office to the most abandoned, wicked, pernicious, and dishonest purposes.

Towards the close of the debate, a number of members, who during the greatest part of the evening had been in the coffee rooms adjacent, now crowded in, and called with loud and continued uproar for the question. Upon this Mr. Speaker Cornwall rose, and called them to order. In a sensible and pointed speech, he severely reprehended the custom. There were, he said, a regular set of gentlemen of a particular description, who did not think it at all necessary to attend to any part of the debate, in order to receive information, or judge where the merits of a question lay, that they might decide with decency, or vote from conviction; but they went to the coffee houses, and there spent the whole evening, and came in towards the conclusion of the debate, and with the utmost disorder and incivility called for the question," and put a hasty stop to the calm deliberations of such members as acted up to their duty, by attending seriously to the business of the House. He hoped, as it was a practice so derogatory of the honour and dignity of parliament, that he should not have occasion again to take notice and complain of the indecency. Mr. Turner was also severe on the gentlemen who had been enjoying their bottle up stairs, till it was time for them to come into the House and divide.

SIR GEORGE SAVILE'S MOTION FOR REFERRING THE PETITION FROM THE DELEGATED COUNTIES, FOR A Redress of GRIEVANCES, TO A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE.

May 8.

THE Delegates who had been appointed by several of the associated counties, in order to give support and efficacy to the subject of their former petitions to parliament for a redress of grievances, met in London to the number of between thirty and forty. They had themselves, as acting for their constituents, prepared a petition to the House of Commons, in which the substance of those already presented being compressed within a narrower compass, the matters of grievance complained of, and the redress proposed, were brought forward into one clear point of view. But as many persons, otherwise fully coinciding with their opinions, were exceedingly jealous of the measure of appointing delegates, and so far from hearing or receiving any thing from them, would not acknowledge the political existence of any such body; upon that account, and in order to obviate the difficulties which would have been thrown in the way upon the same ground by their declared op

posers, they subscribed the petition merely as individual freeholders, without any assumption or avowal of their delegated powers or character, although they were matters known to every one. The petition was presented to the House, on the 2d of April, by Mr. Duncombe, one of the representatives of the county of York, setting forth:

"That this nation hath been engaged for several years in a most expensive and unfortunate war; that many of our valuable colonies, having actually declared themselves independent, have formed a strict confederacy with the ancient enemies of Great Britain; that the consequences of these combined misfortunes have been, a large addition to the national debt, an heavy accumulation of taxes, a rapid decline of the trade, manufactures, and land rents of the kingdom; that, notwithstanding this calamitous and impoverished state of the nation, much public money has been improvidently squandered; and that many individuals enjoy sinecure places, efficient places with exorbitant emoluments, and pensions unmerited by public service, to a large and still increasing amount, whence the crown has acquired a great and unconstitutional influence, which, if not checked, may soon prove fatal to the liberties of this country: and your petitioners farther shew, that your petitioners, jointly with others, freeholders of several counties, and electors of several cities and towns in this kingdom, did, in the last session of the late parliament, present to the honourable House of Commons, humble petitions, requesting that some remedy might be provided by the wisdom of parliament against the extensive and unconstitutional influence of the crown, and some stop might be put to the lavish expenditure of public money and your petitioners beg leave to state, that the matter contained in the petitions so presented by your petitioners and others, was taken into consideration by that honourable House; and on due and mature deliberation that honourable House resolved: 6 1. That it is necessary to declare, that the influence of 'the crown has increased, is increasing, and ought to be dimi'nished: 2. That it is competent to this House, to examine into, and to correct abuses in, the expenditure of the civil list revenues, as well as in every other branch of the public revenue, 'whenever it shall appear expedient to the wisdom of this House so to do: 3. That it is the duty of this House, to provide, as far as may be, an immediate and effectual redress of the abuses complained of in the petitions presented to this House from the ‹ different counties, cities, and towns, in this kingdom:' and your petitioners beg leave farther to state, that before that honourable House had effected that diminution of the influence of the crown, and had provided an effectual redress of the grievances complained of in the said petitions, the said parliament of Great Britain was, by his majesty's royal proclamation, dissolved: your petitioners, therefore, on behalf of themselves and others their fellow subjects, who joined with your petitioners in the said petitions, appealing to the justice of this honourable House, do most earnestly request, both for the relief of the subject and the safety of the constitution, that this honourable House will proceed to enquire by what means

that diminution of the influence of the crown may be obtained, which the last House of Commons declared to be necessary; and that this honourable House will proceed to examine into all the branches of the expenditure of the public money: and also to enquire what expences can be retrenched by an abolition of sinecure or unnecessary places, by a reformation in respect of pensions unmerited by public services, and by a reduction of the exorbitant emoluments of office; and that the produce be appropriated to the necessities of the state, in such manner as to the wisdom of parliament shall seem meet." The petition continued upon the table until the recovery of Sir George Savile, who was to proceed with the business. On the 8th of May, Sir George introduced his motion for referring the petition to a committee, with a speech of very considerable length, in which, with his usual accuracy and comprehension, he stated the causes, progress, and history of petitions without doors, with the reception they met, and the effect which they produced within; particularly reciting the resolutions of the last parliament, on the 6th of April 1780, which afforded so clear a sanction to the complaints of the people, and by which that House was pledged to a speedy redress of their grievances. The motion of commitment meeting with a strong and determined opposition, and being no less vigorously and ably supported, all the arguments pro and con, that had hitherto been used upon the subject of petitions, grievances and redress, with all those that could now be thought of, were repeated or brought forward; the whole being blended with new matter, relative to the powers assumed by the delegates; which, though not properly within the line of debate, as they did not appear in that capacity with respect to the petition, was, however, continually pressed into notice by those who opposed the motion. The debate was long, and exceedingly interesting; several constitutional points, with respect to the interference of the people, and the powers of government, were ably and fully discussed. The motion was principally opposed by Mr. Rawlinson, Sir Horace Mann, Colonel Roberts, Lord Fielding, Mr. Courtenay, Mr. Rolle, Sir Francis Basset, The Solicitor-General for Scotland Mr. Alexander Murray, Sir William Dolben, and the Attorney and Solicitor-General. It was supported by Mr. Duncombe, Mr. F. Honeywood, General Burgoyne, Mr. Byng, Mr. Thomas Townshend, Mr. Powys, Sir H. Hoghton, Sir George Yonge, Mr. Martin, Mr. Harrison, Mr. Alderman Sawbridge, Lord Maitland, Mr. Fox, Mr. Dunning, Mr. Turner, and Lord Surry. When Sir William Dolben sat down,

Mr. Fox rose, and in a speech of considerable length, adverted to every argument that had been advanced in opposition to the motion, with a power of argument and eloquence peculiar to himself. He observed, that the arguments made use of, by those who opposed the motion of his honourable friend below him, were equally novel and unanswerable; for no man knew how to meet them; they having assumed such a diversity of shapes and forms, and so many observations had

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fallen in the course of the debate, totally extraneous to the subject matter; but which, by a curious species of logic, had been made to apply to the motion, and, in the apprehensions of those who made them, were deemed to be decisive of the question.

It has been argued by some, said he, that the public money has been, and is faithfully, expended; by others, that the influence of the crown is not increased, and of course ought not to be diminished. By a third description, it is acknowledged, that oeconomy is necessary, and that the public expenditure may be improved; but that measures are now taking for that purpose, and our interference is therefore un-. necessary. Others again say, that the meeting of the delegates was illegal, and that those who composed it are punishable. It has been allowed, that the meeting might be innocent, but it was the conduct of the persons who associated which rendered it criminal. Another description of persons say, the present petition is premature, because the principal object of redress is in the hands of the commissioners of accounts; and above all, it has been warmly pressed, that the persons, whose names are signed to the petition, come here in disguise, in the character or capacity of freeholder and citizens; whereas they are in fact delegates: if delegates, their petition ought not to be sent to a committee of the whole House, because they have usurped the rights of that House and the legislature at large: if freeholders, they are too few in number to deserve the attention of that House; and finally, however few or insignificant, that they have transgressed an act of parliament, because the petition is signed with more than twenty names.

This, he said, was but an abridged state of that torrent of eloquence and reasoning which had that night been urged in the course of the debate. However unequal to the task, he would endeavour to give each of those objections a separate and distinct answer, and make such observations in proceeding, as might suggest themselves to him, in reply to the very numerous miscellaneous remarks which were blended or connected with those arguments he had already enumerated. He would not undertake to answer them in the order they were urged, but would have recourse to his memory, merely as the points might arise in his mind.

It was urged, with great seeming weight, and studied plausibility, that the petitioners came to that House in disguise; for although they pretended to be the men they really were, namely, the freeholders and citizens of the places within which they were resident, they were in fact delegates; therefore their prayer or petition was not to be en