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have examined your public accounts; from whence alone you can judge, by a comparifon of your expences and revenues, of the neceflity or the means of public retrenchment-Oeconomy is a doctrine eligible and applicable to every nation, and every time; to every ftate, and every condition amongst men. But that, like every thing elfe, is a relative term; and whilft that is attended to, other great duties are not to be forgotten. My Honourable Friend, with a largenefs of mind that diftinguishes all his efforts, lays his hand at once on the army, as the fruitful fource of retrenchment. I admit it is fo; but in making that a facrifice to economy, we should facrifice an higher duty-you would draw your accustomed aid from your fifter country, at the very moment in which she is extending to you every inftance of juftice and affection-You would refufe your ufual contribution to the empire, at the very moment in which you have acquired a valuable intereft in her prefervation. Befide retrenchment, other con cerns must fill our mind-National character and national honour are not to be forgotten.

When we asked for commerce in 1779; the words of our addrefs were thefe, "We lament that the limited state of our trade and commerce muft, by narrowing our refources, fet bounds to our liberality."-How can you reconcile this addrefs to the other? How can you reconcile this language of acknowledgment, with that language of folicitation ?----The addreffes would indeed be conformable to each other, if your firft addrefs to his Majefty had faid, "Remove thofe reftrictions that opprefs, and we will fet bounds to our liberality-we will diminifh our fupplies-we will difband our army open to us every fource of profperity that England has acquired by the blood of her inhabitants and the expenditure of millions, and we will contribute lefs than ever to the common cause."-No! These were not our fentiments when we afked-they will not be our fentiments now we have obtained our tights. He stated the hiftory of the augmentation of 1769, and the motives that induced it not merely for our own defence, but even then avowedly to make a contribution to the fupport of the whole empire. He asked what had happened fince to induce us to withdraw a contribution continued fo many years?

He drew a parallel between the different conditions of the times: We had not then a communication of commerce and conftitution. We were not then a people enjoying perfect liberty; and commencing unlimited commerce.-Though there were then bonds of connection between us, there were likewise causes of jealoufy-We had not then fo great an intereft in the empire..

He concluded with faying, he would follow the sense of the parliament of 1769, ftrengthened by a thousand new incentives, in the idea of bearing this fmall part in fupport of the whole empire; and that we never fhould be credited in our affertions of

regard to the common caufe, if under our prefent circumftances, we were to retract a contribution we afforded in times and conditions fo very diffimilar.

Right Honourable Luke Gardiner faid, No man has a jufter fenfe of gratitude than I, 15,000 men or double the number, I would afford Great Britain, if it was in our power fo to do; but from the papers on your table, the alarming truth appears, that your military eftablishment alone exceeds your revenue.—In the two laft years you had not more than 5000 men, and yet what a prodigious exceeding do we find! Since we could not afford 5000, muft we load ourfelves with 15,000, though on the fmaller number our revenue falls fhort of our expence 250,000!. If the cafe is otherwise, I am fatisfied that we maintain the larger number.

I wish well to Great Britain, but will not promife impoffibilities. Muft we again go begging to England for money to pay an army? In fhort, let adminiftration fhew me any poflible scheme of fupporting fuch an establishment, and I fhall gladly acquiefce.

The Right Honourable Henry Theophilus Clements.-The motion. I conceive wholly premature, as we are verging on the com→ mittee of fupply, where fuch a measure only fhould be taken up.

I acknowledge the keeping of fo large a body of forces in the kingdom will be attended with additional expence, but then, I am happy it is in my power to fhew you that the revenues of this country will next year be adequate to the expenditure; for it appears from the accounts delivered in, that our revenue has encreased in the last two years 314,000l. more than the two preceding ones.

Mr. Greene went over the fame ground as those who had before spoken against the motion.

The Provoft.-Whatever gentlemen may think on this occafion, I am clearly of opinion, fuch an addrefs as that propofed, very unbecoming at this time. The reduction of our army could at no time be fo improper as now.-What fhall we fay to England? We refufe you this day, when you have made us free, what we granted you when you held us in fetters; nay, when they galled

us most.

When the committee of accounts have made their report, then, if proper at any time, you may proceed on fuch a meature.

Right Honourable Luke Garainer.-When we granted 5000 to Great Britain, she was in a manner at war with all Europe; but of what ufe is our keeping an army for her now? it is an empty fervice.

An Honourable Gentleman has mentioned, that our revenue has encreafed 300,000!. but what fignifies that encrease or double that fum, if our exceedings keep more than pace with it? we are ftill as bad as ever.

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Sir Henry Cavendish.-I would ask a queftion of the Right Honourable Secretary. Are we at peace, or are we at war? Is there any account received of an armament preparing in France to land in this kingdom, or in Great Britain ?-If not, we are then in peace. We hear, indeed, of retrenchments intended by govern ment; but if the minifter will not specify them to us, I believe they intend none.

The Recorder.-I feel the peculiar delicacy of my fituation, as the delegate of virtuous men, and as the reprefentative of the first city in the kingdom, where poffibly, at times a ftanding army has afforded a theme of jealoufy; but I think every member ought to deliver his fentiments free and undisguised.

Juftum et tenacem propofiti virum,

Non civium ardor, prava jubentium,
Non vultus inftantis tyranni

Mente quatit folida.

friend than I am.

Oeconomy, I think, is indeed abfolutely neceffary, and wher it can be obtained by fair and honourable means, it is a confum mation devoutly to be wifhed. There was a time when I would not have wifhed to maintain a single foldier, because then his implicit obedience was paid to an English law, but now I profefs myself a friend to the army; they are regulated by a law of Ire ́land, and I must say, that my judicial fituation has given me frequent opportunities of feeing in general, that body of men amenable to the laws. I have often remarked, that whenever the mili tary are mentioned, the volunteers are contrafted to them. Asto the volunteers of Ireland, I hold them in the greatest respect and reverence, and I am bold to fay, they never had a more faithful A former parliament was incenfed at fome im proper conduct, I undertook and happily accomplished a reconciliation. I know the volunteers have fhewn the higheft merit in obtaining the rights and conftitution of their country, and I truft they will always manifest equal merit in preferving them--but is the detail of garrifon duty and military fervice to be for ever thrown upon the volunteers? Are their labours to be inceffant, and agriculture, the loom, and the fhuttle to remain neglected? No, let the volunteers have reft, and return to their occupations; they have ufed their arms in their country's fervice, and I have no doubt but they will keep them bright and in readiness to fupthe law and conflitution of their country when attacked. port The prefent army establishment is not encreated, it is just the fame as before the laft war, and in juftice, as well as gratitude, we cannot proceed to the immediate reduction of the army; befides, the military fhould be now retained as a poffe comitatus, to affist and be fubordinate to the civil magiftrate in enforcing the due execution of the laws of the land.

Mr. Bube faid, will you hear England exclaim, O you who have obtained a mutiny bill of your own, will you throw off the army you have taken out of our hands? Will you refufe to defend the colonies we have given you the trade of? Will you refuse your quota for the general fervice?

Mr. Corry faid he was decidedly for the addrefs. He asked, would any gentleman fay that peace is not a feafon for military reduction, at a time when the fituation of the country calls for œconomy ?-Gentlemen had spoken of reduction in the civil eftablishment, and feemed to fay by their arguments, exactly the reverse of what in his opinion was fitting, fince he thought that at a time when the country was preffed with the expence of a war, it was fit to attempt civil reduction, and that when the bleffings of peace were restored, was the time to make reduction in the military.

Mr. Hartley. Whenever it has been urged in argument against Ireland, that as fhe contributed nothing towards the fupport of the British navy, and therefore fhe ought to participate in the trade of Britain, I have always anfwered, that though we do not maintain a navy, we fupport an army in the common caufe. Was I to vote this night for a reduction of the army, I fhould thereby vote againft my opinion in favour of Ireland's right to trade to British colonies. The trade of this kingdom is to be protected by a British navy, and we in return, ought to fupport our peace establishment; befides I expect that when the equalizing duties come on, ministers will remember this vote, and not by destroying the effects of a free trade, prove that I was wrong to give it.

Mr. Browne, of Trinity College, faid, he was no party-man, yet declared himself. obliged a fecond time at this early period of the fellion, to oppofe an adminiftration, which was fuch a determined foe to œconomy. An adminiftration which not only was about to reject the fingle plan of retrenchment, which could be effectual, but had lately denied the neceflity of any retrenchment at all.He proved that retrenchment was abfolutely neceffary, by stating the formidable amount of the national debt, and fhewed that as our expenditure exceeded our income by 200,000l. per annum, the debt must perpetually increafe, as we muft borrow that fum every year. The example of England fhewed the horrid confequences of an increasing debt, and the prefent was the best time for us to ftifle the moniter in its very infancy. He afked, why mini fters, instead of abusing our common fenfe, by afking men to wait for committees of accounts, and committees of fupply, to prove what every body knew, did not think of forming a finking fund? They could not do this, until they brought our expences below our income, and if they could do fo, fo as to fave even the small fum of 20,000!. per annum, even that in lefs than fifty years would pay off the debt, if the intereft faved by the fums paid off,

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was perpetually applied to the discharge of the remaining part of the principal.

He proceeded to flew that retrenchment could be had only in the army eflablishment; he declared himself an enemy to ftanding armies; but if they must be, wifhed at leaft for a reduction. But here he was very brief, as the Right Honourable Gentleman who made the motion, he faid, had anticipated him, and though he might enjoy his path, he could not presume to approach it.

Mr. Pelham faid-Sir, I have been called upon by a Right Honourable Baronet, and I feel it my duty to fay a few words in reply if this, Sir, was the first day of the fupply, I fhould think myfelf culpable if I was not ready to debate the prefent question; but as it feems the general opinion that it is now premature, I fhall not enter minutely into it, particularly as it has been debated in a manner fo favourable and fo honourable to adminiftration; it is not my practice, nor that of the minifters with whom I have the honour to act, to make mighty promifes; -I rather hope by my actions to gain the approbation of this Houfe; but when the provifions for the future year come to be made, and the army establishment to be examined, I hope to fhew that I have not been inattentive, and that fuccessful attempts have been made towards reducing much of the military expences, and in laying the ftate of the establifhments before the Houfe in a more fatisfactory, clear, and explicit manner than ever had been done formerly.

Mr. Parfons.-Gentlemen will now fee, fince fuch a measure as the one before you is eluded, when a war is fo improbable, that they have nothing to expect, when for a contingent neceflity in England we neglect making fo neceflary a reduction. It was always in our power to reduce our civil establishment, but it is now only we can retrench our military, except we intend this kingdom merely as a barrack to England.

Your debt, it is true, is now only two millions, but in twenty years more it will be ten millions, the very intereft of which will be equal to your whole revenue.

Our expences must be reduced on a great fcale, no little nibbling of petty offices of ftate can relieve our exhaufted finances.

Mr. Doyle faid that he felt the addrefs to be at the present time and in the prefent ftate of the country as ungrateful as it was unneceffary.

Mr. Henry Flood.-I am concerned to rife again at fo late an hour, but in my opinion, all that has been objected to my motion is foreign to the argument. I am told it is too late, it is premature, it will not be too late on Wednesday to bring it forward. What, I pray you, has the committee of fupply to do with a queftion of economy? I do not mean to curtail or fhorten your

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