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Sir Henry Cavendish-If gentlemen are willing to go into the merits of this matter, I know the fituation of Bayly to be different from what it is reprefented. He made a concealment of his effects, in tranfgreffion of the bankrupt-laws. and deferves the fevereft punishment that can be inflicted. Gentlemen call on our humanity in his favour, and tell us of his wife and many children; but do not the many wives and children of the defrauded creditors alfo claim our humanity? Humanity is a fine thing, and fo is popularity. We are on that account, I fuppofe, to gain a little public favour by facrificing the creditor.-But in point of law, juftice and equity, we ought to confider the fituation of the creditor, as well as that of the debtor.

Mr. Fofter was for poftponing the committee, as a fraudulent return had been made from one of the goals, and gentlemen should have time to enquire into it.

It being then moved, that Mr. Ogle do leave the chair, and the Speaker having refumed it, Mr. Meade Ogle reported from the committee that they had made fome further progrefs in the matter to them referred, and that he was directed by the committee to defire leave to fit again.

Alderman Warren prefented a petition of the Lord Mayor, Sheriffs, commons and citizens of the city of Dublin, in common council affembled, praying that the bounty on the inland carriage of corn may be put on its former footing.

The Houfe, according to order, refolved itfelf into a committee of the whole Houfe, to take into confideration a bill for regulating the corn trade, promoting agriculture, and providing a regular and steady fupply of corn in this kingdom, Mr. Bolton

in the chair.

Mr. Feier moved, that no bounty be granted on corn imported, till it rifes to 30s. per barrel. Though he mentioned 30s. he left it to the Houfe to infert 28s. in lieu of it, if it fhould, on confideration, appear proper. The bill, he faid, was calculated to fupply this country with corn, and to encourage agriculture. He alto fubmitted to the confideration of the committee, whether it would not be expedient to grant a bounty on the exportation on foreign corn when more was imported than could find fale, and when the price was lower than that before mentioned.

General Luttrel thought the price mentioned too high. It was his wish to let the poor eat bread, he would therefore be for fubftituting 275.

Sir Lucius O'Brien said, that the bounties on corn had not made it cheaper. By one claufe of the bill, the miller was to take an path as to facts, and as he was an interested perfon, it was only holding out temptation to perjury.

Sir John Parnell faid, that when corn was low, agriculture was checked; but this law would make importation falutary, when corn was above 28s.

Mr. Corry-I cannot pretend to be as converfant in this fubject as fome other gentlemen. I come from a mountainous part of the kingdom, and know that the poor are in a ftarving condition.I know that those manufacturers who are the fupport of this country, are in a miferable fituation. Gentlemen fay, that this bill will give them relief; but this is faying, "Live, horse, and you fhall have grafs :" in the mean time, the people will starve.The fouth of Ireland grows a great deal of corn, and the price is low, but in the north they have little corn, and the price is high, and confumption great-Í am fenfible the bill will operate in favour of the poor and the intereft of the country; for by giving a bounty on the exportation of corn, when below a certain price, you give encouragement to the farmer to promote the culture of

corn.

Mr. Toler objected to the adminiftering an oath to the miller, who was an interested perfon, and liable to the temptation of com→ mitting frauds to get the bounty,

Mr. Fofter faid, that as the law is now understood, no foreign could be imported till the price of corn was 365. per barrel. He had received a great number of letters from England, and entertained many doubts on the price. In England it is 17. 12s. 6d. and as we must look up to England, as our beft corn market, he would wish we kept as near them as poffible in this refpect.However, as he was of opinion that it would be more advantageous to make the price too low than too high, he would fubmit it to the committee whether 30s. were not a proper fum.

Right Hon. the Secretary of State was against making any alterations in the conftitutional mode of ftriking the averages, as prefcribed by the laws now in being. The bill before the committee took the determination of this matter from the juries, and tranfferred it to certain men, hired at 25. per week, to tranfmit the price of corn from each market town to Dublin. The present bill ordered the average to be made in Dublin, which, on many accounts, he thought inconvenient.- He then moved, that the words to be afcertained by the laws now in being," be added to the claufe. His reafon, he faid, for making this amendment was, that in the north of Ireland there exifted a great scarcity of corn, while in the fouth they had more than they could confume, and it was fit the people should have bread, and at as cheap a rate as poffible.

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Mr. Gardiner faid, the average price of corn was well ftruck in Dublin, and recommended the mode of tranfmitting the prices from each market town to Dublin: the average price for the whole kingdom of England was, he faid, ftruck in London, and he never heard any complaint of it.

Mr. Fofter fubmitted to the confideration of gentlemen, the propriety of pointing out thofe towns, whence returns of the price of corn fhould be made to prevent their being made by ignorant men, and to take care it fhould be under the infpection of the magiftrate. Such perfons, he faid, were appointed in England. That the average price of corn fhould be ascertained in Dublin, paffed in the negative without a divifion.

Mr. Hartley moved, that 28s. be fubftituted in place of 305.
The amendment was negatived without a divifion.

Mr. Fofter's motion was then agreed to.

Alderman Warren moved for an increase of the bounty on the inland carriage of wheat and oats.

Mr. Fofter faid, as that fubject had been under difcuffion for three or four feffions, and that the prefent bounty had been approved of, though he had a great refpect for the opinion of the Hon. Mover, yet as he could not then join in opinion with the Hon. Gentleman, he hoped he would not infift on the motion in fo thin a Houfe, efpecially as it was a matter of importance, but that he would take an opportunity to-morrow, when the House would be full.

Alderman Warren agreed to poftpone the motion.

The Speaker then refumed the chair, and Mr. Bolton reported from the committee that they had made fome progrefs in the matter to them referred, and that he was directed by the committee to defire leave to fit again,

Mr. Alcock prefented to the Houfe, according to order, a bill for regulating the police of the city of Waterford; which was received and read a first time, and ordered to be read a fecond time to-morrow morning.

Alderman Warren moved, That an humble addrefs be prefented to his Grace the Lord Lieutenant, defiring that he will be pleafed to give directions to the proper officers to lay before this House all informations relative to the high prices of corn returned for two years laft paft, and which are now lying in the public offices.

Ordered, That the faid addrefs be prefented to his Grace the Lord Lieutenant by fuch members of this Houfe as are of his Majefty's mott honourable privy council.

Mr. Corry prefented a petition of the inhabitants of Newry, convened by public notice from the fenefchal, praying a reform in the prefent ftate of the reprefentation of the people in the parliament of this kingdom.

Mr. Mafon, according to order, reported from the committee appointed to take into confideration a bill for raifing and establishing a fund for a provifion for the widows and children of the clergy of the church of Ireland, that they had gone through the faid bill, paragraph by paragraph, and made feveral amendments

thereto, which he read in his place, and after delivered in at the table.

FRIDAY, MARCH 5, 1784.

The proper officer, purfuant to order, prefented to the Houfe, an account of the penfions that have been placed on the civil establishment during Lord Northington's administration.

Ordered, That the committee appointed to enquire into the ftate of the coal trade in the city of Dublin, and the combinations entered into between the coal factors, masters of ships, mafters and owners of gabbards, and the coal carmen, be impowered to examine, in the moft folemn manner, fuch perfons as they fhall think proper upon the fubject matter of the faid enquiry.

Ordered, That the feveral returns of the annual amount of the tax laid on the different parishes of the city of Dublin, and the fuburbs thereof, for the payment of watchmen, and also the number of watchmen kept in each parish refpectively, and alfo for the purpose of lighting the public lamps in faid city, now lying on the table, be referred to the committee appointed to enquire into the caufes of the prefent dangerous and neglected fate of the streets of this city.

The House, according to order, refolved itself into a committee of the whole Houfe, to take into further confideration a bill for relief of insolvent debtors; Mr. Marcus Beresford, in the chair.

Hon. Richard Annesley humanely obferved, when the name of William Bayly was read, that he was a gentleman unfortunately fituated, as fome others were, against whom a commiflion of bankruptcy had iffued; that fome of their creditors were obdurate, and in fuch a cafe as the law then flood, it was not difcretionary in the Chancellor to grant the certificate; there was not any thing more, or uncommon in this cafe; he had been fome years in confinement, and therefore he hoped, there would not be any exceptionary claufes against him, as he was willing to comply with the bankruptcy laws.The queftion being put on the exception against Mr. Bayly, it was negatived unanimously.

The Speaker having refumed the chair, Mr. Marcus Berefford reported from the committee, that they had made fome further progrefs in the matter to them referred, and that he was directed by the committee to defire leave to fit again.

Waddel Cunningham, Efq; took the ufual oaths, and his feat for Carrickfergus.

Mr. Montgomery (of Donegal) moved, That the proper officer fhould lay before the Houfe, a lift of all veffels employed as re

venue cruizers, fpecifying the expence incurred by each, for four years laft paft.

Mr. Grattan faid, he was glad to have it in his power to give the Honourable Gentleman the information he defired, having on a former occafion moved for a paper to the fame purport, which he was ready to lay before the Houfe, or the Honourable Gentleman.

Mr. Montgomery then moved, That the proper officer should lay before the Houfe the feveral fums of money paid to the king's council, barristers, &c. &c. in fupport of revenue fuits, together with the expence of all fuch fuits, and fpecifying the expence incurred by each, alfo the fums paid for private information, alias fecret fervice money, for four years laft paft.

Right Honourable Mr. Beresford-I have always great fatisfaction in giving gentlemen every information in whatever relates to the revenue department, and have no manner of objection to the prefent motion, but that it fuppofes a circumftance not founded on fact; there is no fuch thing as fecret fervice money ever gi ven by the board, nor have they power, even if they were fo inclined; as to private informations in matters of great importance to the revenue, and where it would be highly improper to make known the informers name, the board have fometimes, though very rarely, rewarded them with small fums. I have had the honour to fit twenty years at the board, and can recollect but two or three inftances; in one cafe the board ordered five guineas, and in another ten; and even these were not fecret tranfactions, for the board drew regular drafts on the collector for these fums, and he took credit for them in his accounts. I therefore, Sir, cannot confent to let the motion pafs with these words, fecret service, because they imply a practice that does not exist, and I shall move you to amend the refolution by leaving them out.

Sir John Parnell-Thofe words ought not to ftand upon the journals of the Houfe, becaufe they convey either an implication that the board has a power to difburfe fums of money for fecret fervice, which is not the fact, or they infinuate that the board is in the practice of difburfing fuch fums, which is not fact either. In the firft cafe they imply a power which the board ought not to have; and in the other, they infinuate a cenfure which the board does not deferve, and for an abuse which does not exist.

The Hon. Gentleman must know that the moiety of goods forfeited is given to the informer by law, and therefore cannot be within the meaning of his refolution.

Mr. Montgomery having confented to expunge the words,“ secret fervice,'

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And the queftion being put, it was ordered accordingly.

Mr. Rowley prefented a petition of the freeholders of the county of Antrim, praying a reform in the prefent ftate of the reprefentation of the people in the parliament of this kingdom.

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