can deter them where they have a hope of accumulating wealth; fo, on the contrary, no motive can induce them to fettle in a country were they are not ftimulated by the incentive of gain. The oppofition which the Jews naturalization bill received in England, both in parliament and from the people, is too recent not to be well known. Even Spain and Portugal were alarmed at the event, and in confequence, both crowns remonstrated fo far on that head, with the miniftry of England, as to threaten the revocation of their commercial treaties; the act was accordingly repealed. He withed, he faid, to fee men of property and ingenious manufacturers fettle in this kingdom, yet it was well known though the Jews were wealthy, they were fo tenacious of that wealth, as not to fuffer it to diffufe general good to any nation; and they were at no period known to encourage the arts or manufactures.

Mr. George Ponsonby observed, that giving oppofition to the bill, because the unfortunate Jews were condemned to wear a yellow hat in Genoa, and a blue hat in Venice, was arguing from an odious abuse, and not from the liberality of reafon. A contrary practice of the ill-treatment thofe people met with in other countries, might be the very liberal means of inviting them to fettle among us. As to the precedent alluded to of oppofition to the Jews bill in England, it could not be of any force in the prefent cafe, as it was carried on to ferve the purposes of party, and to render the Duke of Newcastle unpopular, under a mask of a pretended regard to religion. But the Duke penetrating into the views which directed this oppofition, and a general election approaching, he defeated the defign, by making a merit of the repeal of this act. If English oppofition, he faid, was to be allowed as found argument, against the propriety of the prefent bill, they might on the fame ground of reafoning, condemn the humane and liberal laws in favour of the Roman Catholics, becaufe Lord George Gordon and the proteftant affociation, from the worst of motives, had oppofed fuch laws in England. The remonftrances made against the Jews' bill by Spain and Portugal, fhould furnish the greateft reafons for our giving thofe people an afylum. The oppoficion of those nations did not arife from religious motives, but from the dread of the injuries that would arife in holding out any incentive for drawing fo useful a clafs from amongst them. As he was fully convinced, he faid, of the utility of the bill, he would therefore oppoie the amendment.

Sir John Blaquiere faid, if the Hon. Gentleman had taken the trouble to inform himself a little better on this subject, he would know that Spain and Portugal could not have proceeded on the principle of jealoufy, which he had fuggefted, as neither country fuffered any Jews to remain amongit them, but roafted them alive whenever they found them.

The amendment was then negatived without a divifion.
This amendment being difpofed of,

Sir Lucius O'Brien moved, that the words, "during their refidence here" be inferted.

Sir Hercules Langribe oppofed the Hon. Baronet's amendment, on the principle of its reftricting the benefits of the bill, which was calculated to give a general naturalization to all foreigners. It would be alfo difficult to afcertain how long they might ftay in the kingdom.

Right Hon. the Provoft.-I profefs myself a friend, Sir, to this bill, both on account of its humane and liberal spirit, and becaufe I am of opinion it will materially ferve my country. It will, Sir, give foreigners of property an opportunity of fettling here, as they will be vefted by law with a power of purchafing land. If we put the alien duty in competition with a bill, calculated as this is, to promote the public intereft, it will be found fo infignificant and trifling as to deferve no confideration. However, I think that they ought to give fome fecurity of making this their place of refidence during life.

The amendment was afterwards put and negatived.
The Speaker took the chair, and Mr. Corry reported.

Mr. George Ponfonby moved, That leave be given to bring in a bill for the better collection of his Majefty's revenue, and for preventing frauds therein.

Mr Corry begged to know if this was only a revival of the prefent revenue bill, or whether it contained new matter.

The Attorney General faid, the best way for the Hon. Gentleman to know that, would be by attending the committee.

Sir John Blaquiere faid, he thought the queftion quite parliamentary, as it went to enquire what the learned gentleman intended to lay before the committee, and which, if he did not approve, he might oppofe before it went thither.

Mr. Chatterton faid he had never known a refufal to answer fo fair, fo parliamentary a question. A polite anfwer he thought was a compliment due to every member of the House upon fuch an occafion.

Mr. Corry. I have always known fuch queftions as that which I took the liberty of putting to the learned gentleman, immediately and candidly anfwered. I do affure him, that it was not to embarrals or oppofe the bill I made that enquiry, but to know whether I might not leave town for a few days, which I would do if his bill was a renewal of that which now exists: but indeed I did not expect to have been fo answered. I must now observe, that there is an off-hand conciseness which characterizes the fpeeches of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and which I am convinced the House wishes to have laid aside. If ever

there was a proper occafion for enquiring into the purport of a bill propofed it is this, when the property of every man in the ftate is concerned. Yet this bill, of fuch enormous confe- . quence, is moved with an unusual degree of precipitation; nor can I think it either polite or decent for one gentleman to bounce up in his place, and haftily move fuch a bill without any explanation or comment, and another gentleman to bounce in his place, and reply to a perfon who enquires into its tendency-" attend the committee and you will know what it contains."

Right Hon. Mr. Beresford affured Mr. Corry, that he had rifen immediately upon his question to give him all potlible fatisfaction, but had not the good fortune to be attended to. The title of the bill fhewed that it differed from the former, but this difference was only in matters of regulation, not in principle or any effential point; and he believed that the Hon. Gentleman, and every man who approved the present bill, would more itrongly approve that which was about to be introduced.

Mr. George Ponfonby faid, it was alfo his intention to explain to the Hon. Gentleman that the new bill contained no extraneous matter, and only differed from the former in points of regulation..

Mr. Chatterton adverted to a claufe in the last revenue bill, by which judges of aflize have a power of reducing damages found against any revenue officer for misdemeanour in the execution of his office, and complained of it as everfive of the trial by jury.

Leave was given, and Mr. George Ponfonby, the Right Hon. Mr. Attorney General, the Right Hon. Mr. Prime Serjeant, Mr. Solicitor General, and the Right Hon. Mr. Fofter, were ordered to prepare and bring in the fame.

Mr. Montgomery (of Donegal) faid he was informed that each officer of the military when employed in feizing unftatutable stills had been allowed two guineas, each ferjeant one, each corporal half a guinea, and a crown to each of the privates; as this he thought was a prodigal diftribution of public money, he should move, that the proper officer do lay before this House an account of the fums that have been expended in premiums to the military officers and their parties, and to the revenue officers and their parties, fpecifying the fums paid to each party; and in what districts, and what fums have been paid for the use of the public from those informations, for two years laft past.

Mr. Beresford replied, he never knew any money accepted by the commiffioned officers for this fervice. The non-commillioned officers and privates were indeed allowed a compenfation for their trouble.-Ordered.

Mr. Attorney General-There is an order, Mr. Speaker, for the attendance of two gentlemen, for preferring a frivolous petition

against the Kilmallock election. I, Sir, had the honour of making the motion for that order, merely to fupport the privileges. of this Houfe. Thefe gentlemen are now at the bar, and promife, in future, to give the corporation no difturbance. I hold their petition in my hand, and as they have given every fatisfaction, I move that the order for their attendance be difcharged.

The order was accordingly difcharged.

Mr. Attorney General rofe again and faid, that as Daniel and Thomas Widdenham had made every apology for paft behaviour, and had promifed to conduct themfelves better in fature, he therefore declared publicly in his place, that he would never think it worth his while to make them pay the cofts. He then moved, that the order for compelling them to pay the cofts be discharged.--Ordered.

Houfe in committee on the infolvent bill, Lord Delvin in the chair.

:

The names of thofe in actual confinement, fpecifying the dif ferent prifons, were read.

Mr. Toler moved that the petition of James Burne, of Carlow, Gent. against Sarah Murphy and Edmund Rorke's being included in the act, be read.

Mr. Chatterton.-I object to any perfon's being excluded by name. The bill is calculated to prevent fraud; for the debtor is compelled, on oath, to deliver up his effects, and if found guilty of fraud, is liable to be punished as a felon without benefit of clergy. By the laws of the twelve tables, which were accounted very cruel, that unfortunate debtor who could not pay his debts, was torn in pieces and his limbs divided among his creditors, in proportion to what he owed them refpectively. But you enact a crueller punishment; for what death can be more terrible and lingering than a perpetual imprisonment? The judges are left a power by the bill to determine in the case of thole unhappy people, and I call on the humanity of the House not to pafs fo fevere a fentence on them. I declare upon my honour, and on my confcience, I have taken every precaution against fraud in the framing of the bill, and therefore hope and conjure the Houfe to let the bill pafs in its present form.

Mr. Toler. If we receive petitions against debtors, and do not enter into their merits, it will be abfurd to have a schedule at all. In the petition in queftion there are witneffes at the bar ready to prove on oath, that the perfons in cuftody have property fufficient to pay their creditors. If any must be imprifoned, it is much more proper the lot fhould fall on them than the petitioner, who only became their fecurity. I am no friend to romantic notions of humanity at the expence of justice.

Dd

Mr. Chatterton.-No perfon can be included in the act whose name is not in the fchedule-The debtor has fo many forms to go through, that he is excluded all poflibility of fraud--he must give notice to his creditors, and the matter is to be tried before the judges of the fuperior court-It is not confiftent with the honour, with the humanity of this Houfe, to condemn a miferable object to perpetual imprisonment, because an Hon. Gentleman makes a motion of courfe; befides, it is hearing only one of the parties, while the wretched debtor, with a furrounding family, is immured within the dreary walls of a miferable prifon, and has not the opportunity to lay his cafe before you; I befeech you, I call on the humanity of the House to avoid thofe exclufions. I have had applications made to me by feve ral refpectable friends of mine to prefent petitions against the unfortunate. In any other infiance I could not prevail with myfelf to refufe them any request, but in this I declined preferring their petitions, and referred them to the judges. However, as I hope I have done my duty, I will leave it to the humanity of the Houfe to determine.

The queftion being put, there appeared for excluding them,

Ayes,
Noes,

Majority,

21

18

3

The Speaker having refumed the chair, and Lord Delvin reported fome progrefs, the committee was ordered again for Thurfday.

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 3, 1784.

Mr. William Ponfonby prefented, from the county of Kilkenny, a petition, which he faid was figned by more than thirty gentlemen, &c. praying a reform in the parliamentary reprefentation of this kingdom, confonant to the plan propofed by the convention.

He alfo prefented a petition from the county of Kilkenny, figned by upwards of three hundred gentlemen, &c. praying that no innovation might be fuffered to take place in the parliamentary reprefentation of this kingdom, efpecially upon fuch a complex, partial and ineffectual plan as that offered to the Houfe; declaring the petitioners perfect fatisfaction at the fecurity and happinets they enjoy under our prefent free conftitation, and expreffing their firm reliance on the House to preferve that conftitution inviolate.

Mr. Molyneux was fure the motion he was going to make, muft, as a matter of courfe, meet the approbation of gentlemen