Arthur Gore, commonly called Lord Sudley, fhould have been duly returned;-that Richard Longfield, Efq; was duly elected for the borough of Baltimore; that Richard Longfield, Efq; should have been duly returned.

He faid, the committee had likewife come to the following refolution: "That James Freke, the returning officer, had been guilty of grofs mifbehaviour, and a flagrant breach of the duty of his office, by giving various unneceifary delays, and by abfenting himself without making a proper return. Mr. Toler then moved, that James Freke be ordered to attend at the bar of the Houfe to-morrow.-Ordered. He then moved, that a new writ be iffued for the borough of Donegall.-Ordered.

The Houfe, according to order, refolved itself into a committee of the whole Houle, to take into confideration the petition of the company of undertakers of the grand canal, together with the report thereupon; and after fome time fpent therein Mr. Speaker refumed the chair, and Mr. Burgh (of Harristown) reported from the committee that they had made fome progrefs in the matter to them referred, and that he was directed to move the Houfe for leave to fit again.

Refolved, that this Houfe will, to-morrow morning, refolve itself into a committee of the whole House, to take into further confideration the petition of the company of undertakers of the grand canal, together with the report thereupon.

Sir John Blaquiere-The committee now fees that to complete this great national undertaking, it will be neceffary to grant to the company the nation's credit or name for 50,000l. which the company will repay in ten years, in the mean time paying regularly the intereit, and giving ample fecurity for the principal. As the welfare of the country is at ftake, as there can scarcely come before the Houfe an object of greater importance, I truft this humble and reafonable petition will be complied with. I am fure gentlemen must be fo well convinced of the advantages which those nations enjoy which poffefs canals, that it will not be neceffary for me to expatiate on them. The great empire of China is interfected with innumerable canals in every direction. Holland derives no fmall portion of her wealth from her canalsEngland feels the advantage of hers very fenfibly-In France there is not only a canal from the Mediterranean to the ocean, but a very confiderable one from the Seine into the interior country. In every commercial country, their advantages are obvious, for as almost all the raw materials of trade, and almoft all the neceffaries of life are fo enormously enhanced by the expence of a long land carriage, that fuch carriage is a tax that hardly any commodity can bear, fo by a canal, where two men and one horse can effect the work of forty men and an hundred horses, the price of carriage is reduced to almost nothing, and the diftance from

materials and neceffaries becomes an object of no concern, as they can be brought to every man's door at an easy expence. Accordingly, as I faid, every nation where commerce flourishes, has its canals, except local circumftances forbid, and perhaps the want of this method of conveyance may be the reason why manufactures do not thrive in Spain.

You have begun an inland navigation in Ireland, and it would be an infult to this nation, to fuppofe that you cannot have it compleated, and the country put in a fituation to derive every benefit from fuch a useful undertaking, when these works have been executed with effect in every other country.

There have been expended very confiderable fums in carrying on this undertaking; but owing to errors in the original plan, and the infufficiency of thofe who had the management and conducting of the works, it is not finifhed; and if proper perfons had been appointed to direct the expenditure of the money, the locks and bridges might have been compleated for half the money they coft. When this canal is compleated, we can bring corn and merchandize from the county Longford, King and Queen's Counties, and counties of Carlow and Kildare; and coals from Lough Allen and Castlemartyr. In the articles of oats, timber, flates, bricks, and potatoes, there would be favings to the confumer in Dublin of upwards of 40 per cent. There are other great advantages in having this work finished; it would increase the land intereft, encourage agriculture and tillage, and promote the improvement of the country for an extent of upwards of forty miles. On the whole, it is propofed to receive 15,000l. and not receive any more, till 10,000l. part of the 15,000l. are fully accounted for; and I fhall offer tuch fecurity on the part of the company, as may be approved of. He then moved the following refolution: Refolved, that it is the opinion of this committee, that the fum of 50,000l. be iffued in treatury bills to the company of the grand canal; 15,000l. in the first inftance, and two-thirds of that fum to be accounted for before any further fum be issued; and that the faid company shall give such security as shall be required by parliament.

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The committee proceeded to the examination of Mr. Evans, engineer, and Mr. Macartney.

It appeared in the course of Mr. Evans's examination, that Mr. Smeyton's eftimate for cutting through the hill of Downing's was 13,000l. that Mr. Trail's estimate was 16,000l. though the work coft but 8,500l.

Mr. Evans in his examination faid, that many errors were committed by those who had the conducting of the work, before he was engaged, but that it was now in a fair way of anfwering many great and useful purposes, and that in a few years the revenue to the company will be 12,000l. a year.

He then gave an account what fums were neceffary for bringing the canal to particular places, the fituation of those places; that if money enough was granted, the Shannon line and canal might be carried on together: that Kilkenny collieries are not properly worked; defcribed the fituation of Lough Allen collieries, that the coals are as good as Whitehaven coals, would be worth about 4s. 6d. per ton, that there is excellent potters clay, that there are iron mines there, that there are two paffage boats that would go in ten hours and a half from Monaftereven. He then entered into the mode of proceeding with the canal, how many men might be employed at the fame time, that there were from 15 to 20 miles upon one level.

Mr. Scott then wifhed to poftpone the business until to-morrow. Sir John Blaquiere faid, that the beft mode to expedite the bufinefs, was firft to examine the witneffes.

Mr. Evans then described the difficulties. He gave his estimate of making of a new line to Athy from Dublin, which would coft 120,000l. fuppofing it to take in all the towns near it.

General Cunningham enquired into the number of locks on the canal, what tolls they brought in, and what would be the expence of keeping them in repair; he was anfwered, that there are eighteen locks, that it would take seven locks more to bring it to Athy, that there are lime-ftone quarries almoft the whole

way.

The witness was asked by Mr. Holmes, if he was a monied man, whether he would advance 50,000l. upon the work? He faid he would, for the difficulties which once difcouraged people, are now removed.

Sir Henry Cavendish wished to know if there was any reafon for faying that all the goods in future would be carried by the canal, when fo many ftrings of cars are continually going on the fides of the canal with goods ?-He was answered, that fince the locks have been finished, the cars have not plied fo much; this proved a futile queftion; because boats for freight were appointed yefterday.

Mr. Evans was then examined by Mr. Fitzgibbon, as to the tolls; from whence it appeared, that merchants goods and grain would pay 2d. per ton carriage for three miles, and 6d. per ton for tolls for three miles; that the tolls from Athy to Dublin would bring in 15,000l. per annum.

One of the members withing to poftpone the bufinefs, Sir John Blaquiere begged to continue the examination of witnefies.

Mr. Macartney was next examined, and gave fo clear and fatisfactory an account, that Sir John Blaquiere and the other gentlemen of the committee, thought it unneceffary to examine any further. evidence from Mr. Macartney-It appeared that in the short distance between Dublin and Monastereven, land carriage was 17. 2s. 6d.

per ton; water-carriage 6s. 8d.-That in England, where he went for the purpose of making himself master of the fubject of canals, immenfe benefits are every day derived from them as well to the public as private perfons. In feveral canal companies, stock fells for a thousand per cent. advance, which muft neceffarily happen, from the wonderful reduction they make in the price of carriage, and the confequent trade that is carried on an instance of this happened at Birmingham, where a cut was lately made; the day before that cut was opened, coals fold for 11d. per ct. wt. and the following day they fell to 4d. and have fold ever since at

that rate.

Mr. Fofter, who declared himself a friend to the undertaking, as of great national concern, examined Mr. Macartney as to the charge of carriage, and as to the nature of the fecurity which the company offered for the nation's name to raise the fum in queftion, and concluded with defiring to know, whether if 50,000l. in debentures, fhould now be granted, the company would at the end of twelve years engage to bring debentures for that fum into the public treafury, under pain of lofing their

charter.

To the first enquiry, Mr. Macartney answered, that the charges on this canal were as low as the loweft in England; that of 8d. per ton, which was the charge of every three miles, 6d. was the lockage or tollage, the remaining 2d. only going to the carrier. As to the latter enquiry, he faid he would, in case the nation lent its name to the company for the fum required, confider the charter as mortgaged for the re-payment, and doubted not, always to find the House a court of equity.

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 12, 1783.

The House in a committee on the petition of the grand canal undertakers.

Sir John Blaquiere fupported the petition with uncommon zeal, and a great deal of argument, and called upon the House for its aid towards this undertaking, as a matter of great national advantage.

Mr. Pelham faid, he understood that the noblemen and gentlemen who had been last night mentioned, were to be fureties, in their perfonal fortunes and eftates for the 50,000l. Under fuch circumstances, it was to him fome matter of furprize, that they came to parliament to look for money, they could other wife get fo eafily. His reafon for objecting to the money being iffued in treasury bills, arofe from government having already raised 300,000l. in that manner; and if so large an addition was made

to the loan, it might lay them under the neceflity of having recourfe to lotteries, and other difagrecable expenfive measures. He thought it very incumbent on the Houfe, to afcertain carefully the nature of the fecurity, before the loan fhould be granted, as it was infinuated that the noblemen and gentlemen, who had been mentioned as fecurity, did not hold themfelves refponfible for the payment of either principal or intereft.

Mr. Fitzgibbon fupported his oppofition in the fame manner of the former night. It was, he faid, a manifest job. No fecurity had been offered by the company which could be approved of, for the money they wanted to borrow. The Houfe fhould at once grant the money as a gift, if they thought the canal a grand national object. Would they fuffer themselves to be bubbled with an imaginary security of wind and water, and bridges, and flood-gates?

Mr. Fofter, after declaring his friendly fentiments for the continuance of the canal, thought the prefent grant fought for, went only to a waste of the public money, if very proper fecurity was not given. The fum voted to Captain Brooke had been well fecured; and the fame was reasonably to be expected from the undertakers of the canal, not only for the repayment of the money, but for the execution of the work. He thought the lockage was charged too high, and on this account, he would move three amendments to the refolution for granting the company 50,000l. as a loan: Firft, That the company fhall bind themfelves to complete the work to the Shannon, by the juft expenditure of the faid loan: Second, To enter into fecurity for the repayment of the fame: And, Third, To oblige the company to reduce their tolls to one half. The fum of 150,000l. had been already expended by the nation in carrying on this work, and the public should derive fome advantage therefrom.-No objection was made to the first amendment. By the alliitance of the encreasing revenue, and the aid of parliament, the work might, he said, be very well finished. On moving the second amendment, a debate enfued, and, among others, Mr. Fitzgibbon pofitively infifted, that fuch very ample and unequivocal fecurity fhould be given, as fhould be approved by a Baron of the Exchequer, on the stating of the Attorney General.

The Prime Serjeant faid, the Barons of the Exchequer, who, by rules of court, were bound not to receive any fecurity, but fubftantial, real, or perfonal property, might not deem the security, that appeared to the Houfe, fully fufficient-He thought it would be ungenerous and unbecoming the Houfe to take advantage of men who had expended above 90,000l. of their property, when they offered the work, on which that fum had been expended, as a pledge for the due performance of their engagement. He said, it was well known that the price of the com