tion, or the Right Hon. Member who feconded it, to declare, whether there was not an exprefs order of the convention, directing them to propofe that bill to the Houfe, and to contradic him if he was not founded in afferting, as he did, that there was.

Sir John Parnel. I cannot fit patiently by, and fee the conftitution of my country overturned.-The gentlemen who introduce this bill, ufe but one argument in fupport of it; that is, they disclaim the interference of the convention, and profess it to be their own. But I will ask them, is it their own alone, did they difcufs it no where elfe? and if they fhall be ashamed to fay, they did not, let the Houfe maintain its own dignity, and ftand or fall by it. If gentlemen feel as I do, they will oppose the introduction of this bill. If they feel that it is the confequence of the debate of another affembly, they will reject it with fcorn; for if it becomes a question whether the authority of the state refides in parliament, or another body, that question must be decided. If there are two rivals for power, one of them muft give way; and I doubt not, the people will rather fupport the conftitution under which they may enjoy every blefling, than a felf-created, felf-affumed authority, unknown to the laws.

Mr. Browne (of the College) declared, the queftion came upon him unexpectedly; however he could not bear to be filent upon fo grand an occafion. He could not endure the thought, that while the great names who offered the bill, floated down the ftream of time, his little bark should not be seen to pursue the triumph.

The queftion is magnificent and fimple; it is whether you will receive a bill of the firft magnitude, introduced by the firft men in the Houfe? A bill which profeffed to restore the conftitution to its priftine vigour, and that beauty with which it appears in theory and in hiftory, which proffers to add finews to virtue, and perpetuity to liberty. It feems to be the messenger of glad tidings. It bears a promifing countenance, multum magna

præclara minantis. We ought to receive it, even if its garb was a little exceptionable; but it is not; it approaches you in the robes of decency, with the modefty and firmness of determined virtue. It does not enter thefe walls with force; but it is received with force. It is unattended with violence; but it is met with violence. I have feen no violence this night, but on the part of adminiftration.

No man, he said, had pretended to fay, that a reform was not neceffary; one gentleman had indeed afferted, that no instance could be produced of a conteft between parliament and the crown, where parliament had not been victorious. But where could an inftance be produced of fuch a conteft of late years? The prevailing influence of the crown was too great to allow

of fuch a conteft; and where there was no conteft, there could be no victory. In the last century there was a conteft; and why? because influence did not exift; but the phrenzy of adminiftration had conjured up terrific forms, which no man in his fober senses could fee. They were not afraid of volunteers when we seemed to be on the eve of a quarrel with England; or when thofe volunteers were raifing the gentlemen, who now fupported government, into confequence.

Gentlemen had intimated that there was a French influence at the bottom of the meafure; if they meant that the propofers were conscious of it, it was a charge of high treafon, and ought to be made in a folemn manner; if they fuppofed them to be dupes, he had too good an opinion of the abilities of the propofers, to pay credit to fuch a ridiculous affertion.

It had been faid, it appeared from late events, parliament had not been corrupt, and therefore a reform was not to be fought, i. e. a reform was not to be fought when parliament was virtuous, and it was poffible to acquire it; but the purfuit ought to be deferred till parliament was notoriously corrupt, and there was no chance of fucceeding in the attempt.

Gentlemen have talked of fpurning the bill. It was not parliamentary or decent language, efpecially when the bill was introduced by the firft men in the Houfe. He was fure those who fpurned it, treated virtue with contumely. They faid to corruption, live for ever: What they said to their country, that country muft judge.

Mr. Hatton faid, he was against the admiffion of the bill, as being haftily and prematurely brought in, and that the people throughout the kingdom do not know its contents.

Mr. Trench declared himfelf in favour of the reform, and faid' he was inftructed by his conftituents to fupport it; and therefore fhould vote for admitting the bill.

Mr. Metge faid, that though he might approve of a reform, this was not in that fhape in which he wished to meet it.

Mr. Handcock faid, though he did not approve of all the particulars of the bill, he should vote for its admiffion, as he was inftructed by his constituents to support a parliamentary reform.

Mr. William Fofter was against the introduction of the bill, as coming from an armed body, and as even there it had been unfairly debated, no man being allowed to oppofe the ruling power. He was, he faid, a friend to a conftitutional reform, but though he would referve himself for a proper occafion, he would oppofe the present bill.

General Cunningham.-Every man who has a tongue or a hand, is called upon to oppofe this motion, which puts the liberty of the country at ftake-I fee it through an armed medium. Will any man tell me that the ink is yet dry, which wrote

The refolution, authorizing thofe gentlemen to prefent this bill rom the convention ?—I always fpeak with freedom, and no man has ever expreffed greater reverence for the volunteers than I have done, while they act in fupport of the laws, but not when they affume to themselves a legislative authority. At the time of their first arming, I thought them dangerous, but their actions raifed my refpect, when they undertook to defend the country from foreign invafion, when they undertook to preferve the public peace; when they undertook to fupport parliament in afferting the conftitution, then I refpected them; but when I find them erecting a felf-created body, when I find they mean to controul parliament, I will oppofe them, I will oppose them in this House and out of this Houfe, with my fortune and with my life.

The volunteers had two opportunities of leaving a name of immortal honour-if they had difarmed, they had acted nobly, or if when they had formed thefe refolutions, they had gone to their respective homes, difarmed themselves, and in brown coats petitioned as frecholders, in that cafe they had acted nobly. The gentlemen deny that this bill is their order-if fo, why was it not prefented laft week? because their orders were not then iffued-why is it prefented now? because they are.

I was always of opinion that a reform ought to be introduced, and I always fhall be of that opinion, when an armed force is not attempting to overawe me; but I look upon charters as facred, and will vote for a reform upon conftitutional grounds. If a love for this country characterizes a volunteer, I am a volunteer myself. I have voluntarily tranfplanted my family and my property into it, I mean to live and die in it. I am a volunteer improver of land, a volunteer builder of houses, ask my neighbours, and my friends, and tenants, whether I am not the right fort of a volunteer-It is fuch volunteers as I that this country now wants in time of peace, and it would not furprize me to fee any gentleman that attempts to disturb the peace, voted out of the fociety of volunteers.

Mr. Kearney was for the bill; are you afraid, faid he, to look a reform in the face?

Mr. Nevill and Mr. O'Hara, fpoke each in fupport of the bill.

Mr. Cobbe faid, he thought on fuch an occafion filence would be criminal, and he would oppose the bill on a different ground from any that had been taken, because it went to establish a perpetual convention at the Rotunda. The volunteers of America, he said, had taken up arms to obtain the independence of their country, and laid them down at the peace, that they might not interfere with their legislature; but our volunteers had acted differently, for after the independence of the country is obtain

ed, they attempt to establish, in themfelves, a legiflative authority.

Mr. Arthur Wolfe.-I will vote against the bill, because I difapprove the plan of reform it contains.

Mr. Forbes.-I rife free and unfettered by teft or inftruction, though reprefenting as independent a place as any in Ireland.— No man abhors the idea of having this House overawed more than I do, for the moment this House is overawed, the conftitution is at an end. I own, I could have wished that the meeting of delegates had not been held in the heart of the metropolis, though I well know the purity of their intentions; but the ignorant multitude do not know it; and if they fuppofe any power fuperior to parliament, that moment there is an end to their obedience.But what evidence have we that this bill comes from that affembly? None, but the pofitive declaration of two members, that it does not, that it is their own-and can I then vote against a bill which is a favourite measure of my own? Is that affembly to fright me out of my propriety, and make me pursue a conduct contrary to my opinion? No, I fhall vote for receiving the bill.

Colonel Maffey fpoke in fupport of the bill: He faid he was inftructed by 3000 freeholders to fupport a bill for the more equal reprefentation of the people in parliament.

Mr. Hardy faid, that if as a public man, any one object was nearer to his heart than another, it was, that the dignity, the honour, and independence of parliament should be preferved inviolate. It was therefore, he continued, under the influence of thofe feelings, operating at all times with fufficient energy on his mind, and certainly more awakened than they ever were at that hour, (for confidering the turn the debate had taken, it was a ferious hour to Ireland) that he then ventured to address himself to the chair, and begged leave to speak, not to the merits or demerits of the bill, the introduction of which had been then moved for, nor to any specific plan of parliamentary reform; for to enter into the difcuffion of fuch questions at that time, would be equally unparliamentary and improper; but he wished to fay a few words as to the neceflity, the abfolute neceffity that exifted, in his opinion, of entering fairly and unequivocally into the fubject then before the House. He then made fome remarks on the dignity of parliament, which had been fo much talked of that night; that it fhould be preferved, not by pompous felf-approving refolutions-refolutions which could give no additional grace to good meatures, and which would only be laughed at, when meant to lend a temporary and delufive aid to pernicious ones; but that it thould be fupported by the confidence of the people, by public opinion, the free bafis of every free government in the world.

He faid, that as to the convention, which gentlemen had been pleased to allude to fo frequently in the courfe of the debate; he fhould have wifhed not to have touched on it, as his ideas on that fubject would not perhaps fully meet thofe of either party; but thus much he would fay, that as far as dignity of character, weight of property, and he firmly believed, purity of intention could enfure refpect, that affembly was fully entitled to it.That from the gentlemen who compofed that convention, he could apprehend no danger to the conftitution. That as to the military affembly fitting in the metropolis, he agreed with gentlemen that it was a novel and extraordinary proceeding, nor did he wish to fee it drawn into a precedent; but he would ask, was not the fituation of Ireland itself novel and extraordinary ?Was not the emancipation of our commerce extraordinary and unexpected?-Was not the emancipation of our constitution equally fo?-In fact, the proceedings of this country, and the fuccefs with which they have been crowned, have been matter of aftonishment, not only to the people of Ireland, but to Europe.Could it poffibly be expected in fuch a country as this, where the impetuofity and ardour of the people are almost proverbial, that fuch a temper when thrown into action, would fubfide in a moment, and that thofe great events which we have lately seen pafs before us, would not naturally call up others equally novel, equally unprecedented in the annals of this country?-As to the continuation of such events he by no means wished it, for no rational man could poffibly deny that the repetition of such proceedings, muft, from the very nature of them, shake the best-conftructed government in the world, and therefore it behoved the Houfe of Commons to take the fubject propofed, into their own hands, and as foon as poffible, to meet it with temper and with firmnefs, to be above the little fineffe of fetting their dignity against their duty, of fheltering themfelves in their dereliction of the latter, by an affected fupport of the former, and above all, by one great comprehenfive honeft investigation of this fubject, to invite the people to prefer an early confidence in them, their newly elected, natural guardians of their rights, to any body of men in the world.

It had been faid that the bill for a reform was the work of the convention to that he could only fay, that had there been the flightest allufion to, the flighteft avowal of the interpofition of the convention in this bufinefs, he would not hesitate an inftant as to the manner of his voting that night; for this he would always infift on-that if the House of Commons was brought together to register their refolutions with perhaps the femblance and empty forms of a debate, but in fact without the freedom of one, parliament would from that hour stand degraded, and no act of attainder ever yet blafted the honours