England, by whofe anfwers we are to be decided, have, like the oracles of old, given fome answers that would fupport this bill, if they were of any authority, but they have alfo given fome that would operate directly against it.

I have but another word-it is a complaint which I blush to make of fome members of this Houfe. Gentlemen who affect to prefer a fpurious illegitimate meeting, to their duty in parliament. There was an inftance of it this day, on the committee for trying the Cork election, where, though each of the parties engaged are under' a daily expence of an hundred guineas, yet before any progrefs could be made, that committee adjourned this morning, that the gentlemen who are on it, and are delegates, might have an opportunity of attending the convention at the Rotunda.-I oppofed it, and moved that the room should be cleared, that we might debate the impropriety of such a proceeding; but this was in vain, for fo intent were gentlemen upon gaining the applaufe of the spectators, that this privilege, which every member of parliament poffeffes of right, was oppofed.

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Mr. Burgh (of Old Town) could not but look upon the bill as fent in by an armed convention, and as fuch, should reject it. He faid, he rofe on account of two charges that had been endeavoured to be faftened on those who should do fo ; one of disrespect and inconfiftency with regard to the volunteers in general; the other of oppofing or rejecting it as a bill of reform ; both of which he difclaimed. He had been asked, why approve of the agency of the volunteers in this metropolis, at the time of the free trade, and on other occafions, and fpurn at it now?" He apprehended there was a wide difference between their addreffing and petitioning, their following up the two Houses of parliament to the Caftle, their waiting for, and fupporting their measures and the forming themselves into another houfe of legislation, to awe, prejudge and dictate; between lining the streets, to attend and compliment and approve, and marching through them to fit, debate and controul. They could not in the former inftance, be faid to controul the Houfe any more than the guards who lined the streets for the viceroy, could be faid to controul or lead his going to parliament; in the latter, they took away all agency from parliament. It had been faid, that as freemen they had a right to arms, if fo, why object to its coming from them fitting and debating in arms?"-The people of England had equally a right to arms; and yet when a bill of reform had been folemnly debated and rejected there, they did not meet and debate in arms; they were not induced to do fo by the rejection of a bill. Here it seems, it must be done previous to its introduction, and even as the mode of it.

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As to its being a bill of reform, fo far from rejecting it on that ground, he thought fome reform was to be defired, particu

larly in the oath of a member, and the mode of election in the greater towns. But introduced as that bill was, he thought himfelf precluded from going into its merits, and that he fhould be unworthy of being a member of that House, or of fociety, if he was not ready to meet any confequence of rejecting it in the firft inftance.

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Mr. Parfons fpoke in fupport of the bill, and argued ftrongly the neceffity of a reform, from the many defects in the reprefentation, and the many faults which parliament had committed.

Mr. George Ogle.-I do not rife to debate the merits of this bill, but I have been inftructed by my conftituents of the county I have the honour to reprefent, the only authority on earth that has any right to inftruct me, or that I will pay any attention to. In obedience therefore to their inftructions, I fhall vote for receiving a bill which profeffes to be for the more equal reprefentation of the people in parliament.

Mr. Richard Hely Hutchinfon faid, he should make no apology for troubling the House on such a subject as the prefent; it was of fuch infinite concernment to them all, that every man who had ever addreffed them upon any occafion, appeared to him to be called upon to fpeak out, and to deliver his fentiments, whatever they might be. Totally unconnected as he was with any perfon who poffeffed borough influence, and by no means difinclined to any reasonable plan for leffening that influence, he thought he looked at the prefent queftion with as little bias to miflead his judgment as any man who heard him; and therefore from no felfifh motive, but the ftrongeft conviction that he owed it to the conftitution and to the public decorum, he rofe to refuse his affent to the bill. He faid, it was his intention to speak with caution and deference, but with an honeft freedom ; without fear of any man or number of men; confcious as he was, that the prefent moment was a very critical one, and required the exertion of the utmost moderation and the greateft firmnefs. To compenfate for his own inexperience, he wished to follow the wifdom of others, and had always thought thofe countries happy, who were bleffed with wife legislators, capable of framing their conftitutions, and in whom their fellow citizens repofed a juft confidence, founded on well-known abilities, and well-tried experience. In thefe nations, the care of forming conftitutions was devolved on philofophers and statesmen, eminent for their knowledge of mankind, for their public virtues and integrity, who from having feen many days, and converfed with many men, were thoroughly well acquainted with their virtuès, vices, paffions and propenfities, and could judge for their countrymen better than these could for themselves. Yet, one of these great lawgivers, after he had framed a conftitution for his country, though he must have been fenfible, that his and every other human in

flitution was neceffarily fubject to errors and defect-yet he thought the greatest benefit he could confer on his fellow-citizens was, to obtain their folemn promife that thefe laws should not be changed during his abfence; and, to make this of perpetual force, he became a voluntary exile, and never returned to his country. The confequence is known-They preferved their liberties longer than any nation that ever exifted; they loft thofe liberties, when the mistaken friends of liberty, attempted to ftrengthen it, as they thought, by introducing levelling principles.

Another great legiflator, of the moft various abilities that ever man perhaps poffeffed, acknowledged that he had not given his country the beft conftitution, but the best she was able to bear.And why? becaufe, he faid, they were armed citizens, of the highest paffions, of the fineft feelings, of the moft refined fentiments, poffeffed of an enthufiaftic rage for liberty; but at the fame time restlefs and difcontented, difpofed to innovation, factious in the full flow of profperity, and fometimes diflatisfied with the best of men, and the beft of measures. The event fhewed, that he perfectly understood the genius of his countrymen, for thefe difpofitions, and an unceafing defire of change, overturned that conftitution which he had fo wifely established.

Greece indeed, he faid, had produced but two of thofe great men, but Ireland has twenty thoufand Lycurguffes, and twenty thousand Solons, who to their immortal honour, have been the glorious inftruments in reftoring the conftitution, and who are now defirous to frame it anew.

He faid, he had heard their voice with reverence, but was distracted with different fentiments of different men. One fet of men advise to abolish what they call rotten boroughs; another, that all elections fhould be county elections; many are for reftoring to their Roman Catholic brethren, the right of fuffrage; many are againft it; fome are for disfranchising all forty fhilling freeholders; others for admitting termers for years. A great authority advifes, that all men, including every beggar, fhould vote, and that each mendicant fhould have one hand 'open for alms, but by all means shut against bribes, and that with the other he fhould give in a reprefentative of the people. Another complains of 14 folio volumes of ftatutes, of 24 volumes abridging the common law, and defires you to repeal them all, and take his noftrum, a little octavo volume, in their ftead.-In thefe circumftances, faid he, I afk, quid fequar, aut quem? I am anfwered by the voice of the conftitution, directing me to follow the reprefentative wisdom of the nation, and not the fuggeftions of any body of men, however highly and juftly refpectable, to the refult of whofe deliberations the law has annexed no conftitutional authority.

But which, he asked, are those rotten boroughs, those which a few individuals decifively influence. He said, he was willing to acknowledge and to lament, that there were too many fuch, and that he earnestly wished for a remedy, if any could be found, not worse than the difeafe. But fome of thofe places, he observed, had already recovered their liberties, and others were in the progrefs to recover theirs. He adverted to the petition from Kilmallock, and faid the fexton of that borough had assured us, that the grave of liberty was not yet dug there, and the parion had declared that he had not yet preached its funeral fermon. And many boroughs, he afferted, might be reftored to their full franchifes, if acts of parliament, which had crept in to deprive particular places of their liberties were repealed, and judicial decifions, under pretence of preventing popular tumult, but which were in effect to prevent popular difcuffion, refcinded; and from the spirit of the times, he looked to these falutary events as likely foon to take place. But if, continued he, you proceed to annihilate the power of fending members to parliament, or to change the conflitution, in all thofe boroughs where the power of a few individuals is decifive, the pruning knife will extend much farther, and wound more deeply than fome perfons feem to be aware of. But would it be juft to change the constitutions of all fuch boroughs, and would it be wife, if it were juft? Several of them were the encouragement to men for building great towns, for planting them with inhabitants, for encouraging arts and manufactures, and promoting civilization; or they were the rewards for beftowing those benefits on their fellow citizens. In acquiring thofe rewards, and defending thofe poffeflions, many great families had expended their properties, and shed their blood. He had no connection with any of them; but if some of the great protectors, or first ornaments of the country should be found in thefe circumftances, would it be just to deprive their defcendants of the well-earned weight in the community, obtained by the virtues of their ancestors; or would it be wife to pluck away every feather from the wing of the few great families who remain, and who have fo much contributed to the improvement, strength, and defence of this kingdom?

To thofe who wished that all the elections fhould be county elections, to encrease the number of voters, and to admit the lowest freeholders, and even the termer for years, into a participation of the right of fuffrage, he begged to ask, whether they were fure this may not throw great weight into the aristocratic scale? He faid, he was certain it would, and therefore objected to it. If the multiplying the number of votes would indeed add weight to the democratic fcale, he asked another question; whether this multiplying of votes may not overturn the conftitution? He feared it would, and he formed that opinion from the

example of one of the greatest states that ever exifted. Rome had acquired a great empire under a conftitution of a mixed nature, in which the democratic preponderated. The enthufiafts for liberty thought fhe was not fufficiently free. The democratic weight was to be encreased, and how? By encreafing the number of voters. All the people of Italy, they faid, have affifted you in acquiring this great empire, and they ought to fhare equally. with you in the government of it. The moderate men at length yielded; the levelling principles at length prevailed.-An army of voters rushed to Rome. Confufion, and anarchy, and civil war enfued. The conftitution was fubverted, and the first demagogue became the tyrant of his country. The people of Italy had, he said, a natural claim to divide the power, it was founded on the fpecious pretext of liberty and equality; but thefe principles were carried beyond their due bounds, by means not confiftent with true government, and liberty was loft by the imprudent efforts made to extend it.-Let us, fays he, remember that these in Rome were in the midst of her greatest success and profperity, and let us fhudder at the example.

He faid, it was dangerous to tell the people that their conftitution is a bad one, before we are to offer them a better. What are they now told? You have no reprefentatives-there is no parliament-you have no government--you are in a state of nature. In the midst of every circumftance that can make a people happy, except contentment, you are telling them that they are the most wretched flaves upon earth. He faid, he was afraid they might believe it at laft. He faid, their fituation put him in mind of the fingular wager ftated among phyficians, that they would make any man in perfect health think himself ill, and in confequence really be fo. His acquaintance was stationed there in different places, and as they met him, faid one, what is the matter, you do not look well; a fecond told him he looked very ill, and wondered to see him out of his house; a third observed his eyes were funk in his head, and the feeds of fome mortal diforder about him. At length a whole groupe of his acquaintance confirmed the fymptoms of mortality, and recommended his bed and a physician. He took their advice, and in due time died in good earneft. The phyfician won his wager, and the patient loft his life.

Gentlemen on this fide of the House had been, he faid, charged repeatedly during the course of that debate, with having introduced the first mention of the volunteers. He afferted the fact to be directly otherwife, and that the convention had been first introduced on the other fide of the Houfe, or more directly speaking, that the convention had introduced the bill about the admiffion of which they were then debating; and in fupport of his affertion, he called upon the Hon. Member who made the mo