important for experiment, too facred for change; and if there be one thing more facred, more inimitable than all others, it is your form of government.- -If the people of this country would enjoy contentment, when they have fo ́much call for it-if they would accept the felicity that is before them— if they would repofe under the conftitution they have acquired, and cultivate the country they have defended by their arms, we fhould be the happieft people on the earth; or if they would condefcend to rest on their arms, and take a review, with their own eyes, of the magnificent objects that employ their reprefentatives, they would behold them with admiration; they would not interrupt their great deliberations; they would depart not only in peace, but in pride. They would fee them arranging fupplies, fo as to infure annual meetings of your parliament :-framing a mutiny bill, to affert your conftitution and govern the army: -forming an Irish post-office, alike favourable to revenue and liberty;-eftablishing an Irith admiralty-court, with final appeal, the last pledge of external legiflation :-giving new authority to the laws, and new reftrictions to prerogative, by an act of indemnity for a late embargo :-deliberating on a wide fyftem of commerce between this country and America, with the great conception of making, if poffible, Ireland the mart of communication between the old world and the new :-they would fee them anxiously and honestly confidering how beft to relieve the diftreffes, and promote the manufactures of this country. I will now tell you what they would not fee them employed about. They are not afferting the fupreme and exclufive authority of your parliament :-they are not refloring to your lords their judicature, or to your nation its commerce :-they are not refcuing your parliament from the bondage of Sir Edward Poynings, or framing an Habeas Corpus Act, or a bill to make the judges independent :they are not overturning religious prejudices by acts of toleration, or inviting the wealth of talents and the world by a naturalization act. No, thefe are done already-thefe are the immortal trophies of the laft parliament.- Good God! is the mind of man never to be fatisfied? If a recollection of what you have acquir ed-if a contemplation of what we enjoy-if the profpect of national improvement which lies before you-if these will not fatisfy you, I can only fay-Happinefs is not the lot of man!--One confolation however he may infure to himself in every public or private calamity, that is the reflection that he had no fhare in producing it.

Mr. Gardiner I fhall offer a very few words, being at prefent very little able to fpeak upon any fubject. I fhall not enter into the merits of the bill itfelf, but confine the little I shall fay to the general principles of reformation. I will not fay that no poffible plan of reform could be ufeful, but I fay, that circum

ftanced as we are, at prefent, it would not be politic to give leave to bring in this bill, which propofes, in a very effential point, to change your conftitution. In England, a bill of reform was brought forward by a man, who for his age, poffeffes the greatest abilities that perhaps ever fell to the fhare of any human being, yet when it was fairly difcuffed, it appeared not to be a popular measure at all, though the circumftances of Great Britain render a parliamentary reform a thing there infinitely more practicable than here.

If then in Great Britain this was deemed a dangerous and unpopular measure, how cautious fhould we be of adopting itbut who will fay that it does not come before us in a very improper manner Who will fay that it does not originate with the volunteers-No man has more efteem, even veneration, for a great part of that body, fo long as they fhall perfevere in their firft conduct, but when they over-ftep the modefty of their fituation, when they affume a legislative authority, I own my esteem and my refpect for them fubfides-I never will fit here to be dictated to by any man or body of men-I fhould think myself in fo doing guilty of the baseft treachery to the conftitution. It is faid the volunteers alone produced the great measures at which all rejoice; but I will not give them the fole merit. Parliament coincided with the firft propofition of the volunteers for the benefit of this country, the others followed almost of course: And now I hope parliament will be unanimous in repelling this first propofition to fubvert the conftitution.

Mr. Brownlow-Gentlemen would have been at a great lofs for arguments to oppofe this motion, if they had not conjured up aerial phantoms of armed men prefenting it on the point of the bayonet, yet what is fo very alarming here, has been practifed in Great Britain, under the aufpices of the present adminiftration. The borough of Shoreham has been thrown open; but are gentlemen afraid of rectifying errors? This is a measure called for with the voice of moderation, there is no fuch mad idea, as that of intimidating parliament, but the voice of the people fooner or later will be heard; we have done our duty in this bill, we offer it to you as our own act, not as the act of other men- -We hope gentlemen will not reject it in the first inflance, but give it a fair hearing; but if it must be put to a queftion, we trust there is in this Houfe a majority to fupport the wishes of the people.

The Hon. Wesley Pole-It is moft certain that there are but few precedents of the Houfe refufing leave to bring in a bill; but the unprecedented state of the kingdom calls for unprecedented meatures; every man knows that this bill originated with the volunteers; and are the volunteers the whole of the people of

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Ireland? I live in a country where perhaps there are five hundred volunteers; there was a meeting for an addrefs on this business, eleven people met, and ten of them named me as their delegate; I refused to undertake the commiffion, because I did not admit the neceflity of any alteration. For my part, I venerate the conftitution which is now attempted to be fubverted; and no man, how great foever his force or eloquence, can influence me to defert it; yet if this Houfe fhould be fo pufillanimous as to receive the bill, and for ever deftroy the rights of parliament, I thank heaven I can go to a country where I can enjoy those rights; but first I will attempt to fupport them here, nor fhall they be overturned by any body of men, while I have life or fortune to defend them.

Mr. George Ponsonby-It is fo extremely natural to think favourably of this conftitution under which we enjoy, in fecurity, our lives, our liberties, our fortunes, and the honour of fitting in this House, that the Hon. Member need not be furprized at finding his innovations fo generally oppofed. A gentleman indeed pretends that we should receive this motion as originating in the Houfe; I own it is made by a Member of the Houfe, because no body elfe could make it; but does not every one know that the Hon. Gentleman is the mouth-piece of the convention, and that this is their voice? Every one knows what has been doing at the Rotunda these three weeks; if there was no intention to overawe us, why was it thought neceffary to bring to the metropolis an affembly of armed men bearding parliament; but I will not be overawed, I will fupport with my life and with my fortune, that conftitution under which I enjoy every bleffing. If we were to enquire very curioufly into the frame of our conftitution, perhaps fome trifling imperfections might be found; but are we on that account, to go round the world begging opinions? and because a gentleman in Yorkshire thinks our conftitution defective, fhall we therefore overturn the whole? Parliament are adequate to the reformation of national grievances, and they have proved it. The reftraint of our trade was a grievance: the dependence of our judges was a grievance: the controul under which our conftitution laboured was a grievance : the deprivation of the privilege of our peers was a grievance: Poynings law was a grievance: but which of thefe grievances now exift? Has not parliament reformed them all? Some gentlemen are so very nervous as to imagine the conftitution is fick -why? because it is fick; but their ftate is fo hopeless, that no man can attempt a cure; for it is impoflible to administer to the maladies of a perturbed spirit.

The object of the Hon. Gentleman is to make our government more popular, and in that point he admits the counties and the

cities are tolerable enough-Ungrateful counties, ungrateful cities-ye have not any of you called upon this friend of liberty to reprefent you, but fuffer him to fit here for a venal borough.

No man enjoys in any higher degree the talent of close reafoning than the Hon. Gentleman who made the motion, and as the inftance of Shoreham has been given, I will fubmit to him, whether that inftance, and its confequences, if authorities are to have any weight, do not decide in favour of letting our conftitution ftand as it is. The borough of Shoreham had fo long and so often been guilty of fuch fhameful bribery, that parliament, though with infinite reluctance, was at laft obliged to interfere with that facred, though abused truft, a charter; and disfranchifing the corporation, eftablished a new one ;-foon after this, a general reformation was propofed in parliament; but did parliament approve it, though fupported by the greatest ability or, did the noble Lord who moved the disfranchifement of Shoreham, approve of tampering with the conftitution of the realm ?

There feems to have been propagated an opinion, that fome radical defect exifts in our conftitution, and political reformers have heated their imaginations with many projects of cure: They have had from a neighbouring kingdom feveral letters, fome of the answers have been fhewn, though not all-it is not the part of honeft men to conceal the truth, but what have they at itake yet this is not all, for after applying to all the fyftemmongers in Europe, we cannot find any two of them agree in their plans of reformation.

There are in this country two fets of men, who are interested in promoting a change. The catholics of the fouth, the known friends to monarchy; the prefbyterians of the north, the votaries of republicanifm; thefe latter have fet on the others to make it a common caufe, and between them both, the established church is blockaded; but if the people who have eftablished the conftitution, fhall be overpowered by thofe who often attempted to deftroy it, we fhall have them quarrelling amongst themselves for votes, for feats in parliament, for authority, and for fupremacy.

Sir, I oppofe the introduction of this bill, because it comes from an armed body; because I and my ancestors have lived happy under the prefent conftitution; becaufe that conftitution every day gives us new proofs of its excellence, and because I do not think it the part of a man to throw away a poffeflion of experienced value, to run after wild fpeculation.

Right Hon. John O'Neil-I cannot be fatisfied with giving a filent vote upon this fubject. I have no objection to the bill as coming from another affembly; but even that is done away by the Hon. Gentleman adopting it as his own. As to the noto

riety of the affembly meeting at the Rotunda, it is nothing but a number of gentlemen meeting to talk over a particular fubject, and what fubject ever came before parliament that had not been talked over before it was introduced? But this has the advantage of being digefted by wife and honeft men, nor do I think it a whit the worfe for having been affifted with opinions from Great Britain. If, however, you will not accept the bill, on the ground which I have ftated, and which are to me fully fatisfactory, I now addrefs you in the name of five thousand freeholders, who have commiflioned me in their name to request a reform; in doing this I have difcharged my duty, and now I fpeak my private opinion, which is, that as the public mind is much agitated, fhould you refufe this their reasonable desire, you will excite jealoufies among the people which you will find it very difficult to allay.

Mr. Fitzgibbon-I thought that fome proof of the neceffity of a reform would have been urged, and that we fhould not be entertained with the flights of vifionary fpeculatifts into the regions of theory and hypothefis; but we endure all this, because the wife men of 1783, cannot reconcile certain abstract ideas of certain fyftem-mongers in England, to the free and happy conftitution of this country.

I do not oppose the introduction of this bill, because it is replete with abfurdities, and directly contrary to the firft refponfe of the Dungannon oracle ;-no, I will oppofe it, because it comes under the mandate of a military congrefs. I fhall take no notice of the manner in which the motion is attempted to be ftolen upon us by furprise-we were to have had ten days previous notice of it. The Hon. Member who adopts and fathers the bill, tells us it is the favourite meafure of the people; now I will undertake to trace it to its fource, and fhew, that it is the production of a military congrefs, affembled in the capital, appearing in military parade, and affuming all the mock order of a legiflative affembly. This plan of a parliamentary reform, was firft taken up by the fociety called, the conftitutional fociety in England, for the purpofe of fhaking Lord North's government, when other engines had failed. Now, whether this fociety correfponded with certain perfons in Belfast, is not well known, but this is certain, that in the month of July, forty-five corps affembled at Belfast, and there did refolve to hold a provincial congrefs at Dungannon, in the courfe of the laft fummer, in order to reform the conftitution of this realm. In the mean time, Mr. Henry Joy, jun. of Belfast, printer of the Belfaft paper, and fecretary to the volunteers of that town, writes circular letters to fundry perfons in England and elfewhere, defcribing what he was pleafed to call the defects of our parliament, in the Commons Houfe, of which he alerts, that there are but fixty-four