garbled and defective, and he appealed to all those gentlemen, who did not take the trouble to attend to the correctness of their own speeches, whether this prediction had not been verified. This was one of the useless expenses of the Convention, and he apprehended, that those very gentlemen who had been making such doleful lamentations about the expenses of the body, would be found among those who had voted for taking this paper, and had always voted against discontinuing it when the subject was brought up. Why, then, all this cry about expenses? Why, it was for effect-designed to operate upon the politics of the country, and make the people believe that those gentlemen are the exclusive guardians of the public treasury. It was a matter with him of no consideration. He came here to do his duty as a member of the Convention, and the matter of the expenses of the body never entered into his mind, in any other manner than that he wished it to cost the State as little as possible. He wished to get through with the duties we were sent here to perform, as soon as possible, but at the same time, he wished them to be done in a satisfactory manner. He was, therefore, in favor of having a direct vote on the proposition of the gentleman from Fayette, (Mr. FULLER) before we adjourn, so that the people would have the opportunity of seeing that a majority of the Convention were favorable to limiting the term of office of the Judges, as he hoped a majority of the Convention was in favor of that measure. For the sake of getting simply the vote on this proposition, and getting it within the time we have yet to spare, he was opposed to going into committee of the whole, and he was, decidedly, and unequivocally, opposed to rescinding the resolution, fixing the day of adjournment.

Mr. CHAMBERS said, there had been no motion brought before this body which had more excited his surprise and alarm, than the one now brought for ward for our consideration. It has been but three days since this body determined, by a solemn vote, to adjourn on the fourteenth of this month, and what were the reasons which influenced us in voting for that early day of adjournment. One of those reasons was, that the season of the year was unfavorable for the sitting of the body: and another reason was, that there was an indifference in the Convention to the business before it, as had been asserted by a great number of gentlemen, which made it entirely improper to proceed with the important business which we have to perform. It was then said, that we could proceed in the consideration of the sixth article, and get through with it by the time we adjourned, and leave the important business for the next session, when we would come back prepared to consider it calmly and dispassionately; yet now, after the question has been decided, and the day of adjournment fixed, we have a resolution sprung upon us, asking us to go into a discussion and decision of one of the most important subjects that could be presented to the attention of the Convention. That which had excited his alarm was, that this most important department of the Government-the Judiciary-was to be prostrated by a mere resolution, to be considered in a morning hour, with out consideration and without discussion. We have, in the course of our business, considered that the powers of the Government were to be distributed into three separate and distinct departments. We have not only refered the subjects of the Constitution, in relation to these different departments, to distinct committees, but they have had them under consideration, and have presented them to this House as subjects for clear, dis

tinct and deliberate consideration. At the very commencement of our la bors, we laid down for ourselves rules of action; rules for the order of business, and we determined that all business of importance should be refered to a committee, and considered by them; that it should then be reported to the House; then again refered to a committee of the whole, and there calmly and dispassionately discussed and deliberated upon, and that their proceedings should be reported to the Convention, and there receive a second reading, before they should be submited to the people for their adoption. Well, after all this, what have we done? It is true, we have considered the Legislative department; and it was stated on this floor, at the time it was under consideration, that it was a department which the people had declared should be reformed, and that limitations and restrictions should be placed upon it; yet he was not aware that any particular restrictions were imposed upon it, after full discussion; but on the contrary, we have placed a portion of the appointing power in its hands. Yet now, at the very heels of the session, when the day of adjournment is fixed four days hence, and the members are engaged in making their preparations to go home, we are called upon to overturn the Judiciary department—a department of more importance to the people, than any one department of the Government a department which comes home to the wants, the interests, and the feelings of the people-a department that protects the weak against the strong-a department which protects the public peace, and redresses the public wrong-and a department which resists the encroachments of all the other departments. Yet this department, which is admitted by all, to be one of the most important departments under the Government, was to be disposed of without receiving that consideration and attention which we have given to all the other departments. What reason is there assigned for so urging on this question, at this time, without consideration? Why, it is said that the people demand this expression of opinion from us. Where is the evidence that the people require this of us? Do the people want from us a crude and mere speculative opinion? It is not proposed, as has been said, to follow this with any Constitutional provision; but merely to express to the people of the country, what the opinion of this body is in relation to the Judiciary tenure. If there was a time more unfiting than another, since the commencement of our sittings, for the decision of this all-important question, that time is the present. Our number is reduced to a little over a hundred. On the vote just taken, there were twenty members absent; and we have no reason to expect that our number will be larger. The fact of the day being fixed for our adjournment, will influence some in going off, and it will prevent those who are absent from returning, so that an increase is not to be expected. He would ask, too, what would be gained by the expression of a mere opinion, without coupling it with a Constitutional provision? It would be a mere expression of opinion from this Convention to the people, which could be of no good. If we are not to legislate upon it; if we are not to fix any term, why not go home, and make known to the people our sentiments there, and learn from them theirs? If we are to adjourn, let us not act on this vital question, without consulting the people. He was not aware of any indications of public sentiment on this subject; at least, not in his section of the country. Gentlemen have again and again told us what the people

did not look to the popular clamor in particular neighborhoods. He did not look to the declarations of public newspapers, as public sentiment. So far as he was concerned, he was able to collect nothing from public sentiment further than this, that the people have sent us here to know what amendments we will recommend to them; and in determining upon these amendments, we are to exercise our own best judgment, with all the deliberation which we can give to the subject. For his own part, he was not prepared to act on this subject without discussion, and all the information he could obtain. He had came here with no such settled opinions as some gentlemen seemed to suppose; and he would not now affirm that ́his opinions were so settled and fixed, that he was not willing to be instructed by the gentleman from Indiana, or any other gentleman. He would listen to that gentleman, and to all others, with respect, and if the arguments they presented were satisfactory to him, he would go with them, even if it was in opposition to his present impressions. His mind was yet open to conviction on all these subjects, and he hoped to hear them fully discussed. We have been told that the Convention of 1790, settled principles by the adoption of resolutions. That was true; but their course of proceeding was entirely different from ours. They expressed their sentiments at an early part of the session in this way, as a matter of direction to their committees. How different was this from our course of proceeding. Here we have had all the subjects committed to committees, acted upon, reported back to the Convention, and refered to a committee of the whole, and the subjects lying on your table to be considered in the manner required by our rules, and why should we, at this time of day, strike out for ourselves this novel course of proceeding, in relation to the most important subject which will come before the Convention.When this subject was to be passed upon, he trusted it would be considered in the manner laid down by our rules, and with that attention which its importance demands. When it is passed upon, we will be passing upon the rights of a large class of office holders, holding important situations; upon a department of the Government of the most abiding interest to every class of the community; and a department affecting the rights of a large class of persons who have no political rights. As he had before said, there was no department of the Government that will affect so much the whole community-the old and the young, the rich and the poor, the minor and the adult, the apprentice and the master-as the Judiciary. Are we to be governed in this matter by the clamor of village politicians, or are we to take the sentiment of the editors of village newspapers, for the public sentiment of the people? He trusted not. He hoped it would receive full consideration and deliberation before we acted upon it. Is it to be any excuse, that because we have consumed so much time in the discussion of other subjects, that we cannot take time to consider this. He hoped not. The gentleman from Indiana has repeated the charge, which he has made on more occasions than one, that a certain portion of the Convention, the conservatives and those who act with them, have consumed a great deal of the time of the body unnecessarily. He had hoped that no such charge would be made against any one side of the House.

Mr. CLARKE, of Indiana, explained: He said he was contending against the cry of expense, when he made the remark; and that cry came from

tion of the Convention, on those measures of reform, which the reformers of the House desired. He had said, distinctly, that he did not blame them for this, and he cast no reflections upon them. They had the right, and if they considered it to be their duty to do so, he blamed them not: but while they did so, he thought this cry of expense came with bad grace. from them.

Mr. CHAMBERS said, he should consider himself as unworthy of a seat on this floor, if he used any efforts here for the purpose, merely, of procrastinating the business of the Convention. There had been no procras tination of the business of the body, by himself, or by the party with which he acted. Has the time of the Convention been taken up with propositions from our side of the House? Who have filled your Journal with propositions? The conservatives? No sir. Is the Chronicle filled up with the debates of the conservatives? no sir. Are we not to be allowed to vote on the proposition of the gentleman, and his friends? Is that poor privilege to be denied us? These various propositions, frivolous as he admited they were, did not come from the conservatives. If you look to the Journal, it will be found that three-fourths of them came from the other side of the House. The circumstance, that we have consumed time unncessarily, in frivolous and useless debate, is no apology, now, for taking up the most important subject, which will have to come before the Convention, and disposing of it under the form of a resolution. It will be recollected that all the other subjects have undergone a free and full discussion in committee, when they were reported to the House, there to be examined and discussed again. Well, is it to be expected that, after acting with all this caution, in relation to the subjects of minor importance, that we are to take up the Judiciary department, and dispose of it in a day or two, in the form of a resolution, without debate, and without deliberation? What respect would be paid by the people of the country, to a resolution adopted under such circumstances? If we were to take up this important subject at this time, then he agreed with the gentleman from Beaver, (Mr. DICKEY) that the resolution for adjournment ought to be rescinded. We could then take it up with the determination to give to it that deliberation, and discussion, which its importance required. It is to be expected when the subject of the Judiciary comes up, that there will be a most able and animated discussion-the conservatives holding to it as it is, and the radicals endeavoring to limit the tenure of office. Then, if we are to go into this matter now, let us cut ourselves loose from this day of adjournment, which we have fixed; because, if this important subject was taken up, and passed upon, between this, and the day of adjournment, it would not command the respect of the people; and it would not be respected by ourselves. If the subject is to be gone into, it should be done in the manner proposed by the gentleman from Northampton, (Mr. PORTER) as he could not agree that that important branch of the Government should be considered in any other form, than that in which all the other subjects were considered. He was unwilling to say that we should go into committee of the whole, on every other article of the Constitution; and, when we come to the Judiciary article, dispose of it by a resolution. But it is said that it is barely expressing an opinion, and that we shall again have our attention drawn to it, and that we will act definitely upon it when we

when we come back, and why take up time, now with a subject which is to be of no advantage to us? What was the use in proceeding to discuss a subject now, which will have to be resumed and discussed hereafter? He should go in favor of the amendment of the gentleman from Northampton, (Mr. PORTER) and against going into a consideration of the subject of the Judiciary on a simple resolution, and at this time to be decided upon.

Mr. MERRILL said, that when the question of adjournment was before the House, for the reasons he then gave, he voted for it; and he could now see no reason for changing or rescinding it. We have gone into committee of the whole, on all the questions which have been brought before us, and why should we now, on a question admitted on all hands to be of more importance than any other, refuse to allow it to take the same course? Why should we attempt to force a measure of this kind through in three or four days. If the question is now taken up, it must be clear to every one, that the time which remains between this and the day of adjournment, must be divided, in a great degree, between this, and a dozen of other subjects which must be disposed of before we adjourn. Then, he would ask the gentleman from Northampton (Mr. PORTER) what hope, he or any other gentleman could have, of doing justice to this subject in committee of the whole. Any gentleman, who would take a look at the subject, as it presents itself to us, will see, that it is impossible to do any thing with it in the time we have yet to spare. The operation of our rules alone, would prevent it. In the first place, when we were to go into committee of the whole, we would have to take up the report of the committee. Then, there was the report of the minority, which was to be considered; and, in addition to this, there are some dozen or twenty gentlemen, who have propositions to submit, many of which are now on the record, differing from both the report of the majority, and of the minority, and differing from each other. In fact, some gentlemen had an entire judiciary struck out, to suit their own views, which were novel and unheard of in this Commonwealth before. Then we should have to take up the report of the committee, and consider it, with all the propositions to amend which might be submited by the various gentlemen, and he who shall be so fortunate, as to catch the eye of the Chairman first, will get his proposition first considered. Now, under these circumstances, he would ask gentlemen what could be done in three days? What progress can we make in that time? It will only have the effect to throw the subject into inexplicable confusion; and when Friday comes, we will have nothing done, and the business will be in such a condition, that it will be perfectly unintelligible to the people. Instead of letting the people know the sentiments of the Convention on the subject, the business will be left unfinished, and the people will have no more information than they have now He had heard very strange arguments made use of in relation to this subject. One gentleman says, we should hear from the people on all subjects, and act in accordance with their wishes; but, another says we must send forth our mandates to the people. Now, these arguments appeared to him to be perfectly contradictory. He apprehended that the people would decide after we have decided, and that they did not send us here with minds made up to make particular amendments.