However, given the enormous potential for profit and any lessening of vigorous enforcement, it can be predicted that organized crime will become more deeply involved in child pornography in the near future. When the heat is off, they typically move in. Our responsibility is to make sure that the heat is never taken off. A direct relationship exists between pornography literature and the sexual exploitation and molestation of young children. As evidence in this relationship, the sexually exploited child unit of juvenile division is seizing an ever-increasing volume of pornographic material as they proceed into areas frequented by the sexual exploitation of children. Substantiating and corroborating this physical evidence are the statements of the victims who in practically all cases were exposed to pornographic literature, films or photographs during various stages of their exploitation. Investigator Barbara Pruitt of the Abused Child Unit will discuss the problem of child abuse as a whole. The physical abuse and neglect, and the sexual abuse of children within the family are the primary concern of the abused child unit. The resulting emotional difficulties of the abused child, and the lack of resources for treatment of the abused and neglected children will be presented. Investigator Barbara Pruit of the Abused Child Unit will discuss discuss the problem of sexual exploitation of children, which takes place primarily outside the family. He will describe in detail the chickenhawk subculture and its role in sexual abuse and exploitation of children. The sexually exploited child unit has found widespread commercial exploitation of children, including the use of children in pornography and prostitution. This exploitation is often organized, with correspondents and participants all over this country. Mr. MILLER. Thank you, Chief Gates. Miss Pruitt? Mr. GATES. Excuse me, Mr. Miller. I am going to have to leave. Mr. JEFFORDS. Would it be possible for us to ask questions before- Mr. GATES. Yes. Mr. MILLER. If you could just hold on. If you do have to leave, and members have questions, let me go ahead. Mr. Jeffords? Mr. JEFFORDS. Yes. I am very interested in enforcement problems, and having been the attorney general of the State for 4 years, I am sympathetic with officers who are cast with the responsibilities to take care of problems, and yet they seem to have problems in enforcement. And I would like to direct my questions to you with respect to the problems of enforcement. And some of the statistics which I have seen around make me curious. I notice, in the Los Angeles Times, and in other areas, you are quoted as saying there are 30,000 teenage prostitutes in Los Angeles. I wonder if you would give me an idea where that statistical figure comes from? Mr. GATES. I think Investigator Lloyd Martin will cover that. This comes from a great deal of research in this particular field. These are estimates. There is no way that these kind of data can be gaunerea with total accuracy, but I think from the testimony that you will receive from Mr. Martin, Investigator Martin, that you will find that that probably is a very conservative figure. Mr. JEFFORDS. Maybe I will just get a little more information from you. Maybe I will wait for most of my questions from Mr. Martin. But I wonder if you could tell me what laws are presently available for you to utilize in this area? Mr. GATES. We have been able to use State laws that do provide us some ability to deal with the abuse of children, both sexually and otherwise. There is pending in the State legislature some law Mr. JEFFORDS. I am concerned. I am trying to get Mr. GATES. Yes. Mr. JEFFORDS [continuing]. A focus on the back enforcement problems. I wonder if you could tell me what laws you have out here now that are available in this area. For instance, I assume you have a statutory rape law? Mr. GATES. No. We have a law that makes it illegal to engage in fornication with a person under the age of 16 Mr. MARTIN. Eighteen, it is. Mr. GATES. Eighteen. Mr. JEFFORDS. Is that under 18? Mr. GATES. Yes. It is not-The old statutory rape law has been changed. Mr. JEFFORDS. Changed; and does that include both male and female, or just female? Mr. GATES. Just female. There are laws that child molesting lawsthat would include the males, but that would be under the age of 13, Mr. JEFFORDS. Under the age of 13 for child molesting? Mr. GATES. Yes. Mr. JEFFORDS. And I assume you have a law against contributing to the delinquency of minors? Mr. GATES. Yes, we do, but that, at one time, was used; to a great extent, it has lost its effect, to a large extent, also. Mr. JEFFORDS. Why is that? Mr. GATES. I think probably those who have worked in the field can probably better answer that. Mr. JEFFORDS. All right, I will save those questions; and feel free to say if someone else is better to answer these than you. I believe there is a statute in California against using a minor in the preparation of obscene materials; is that correct? Mr. GATES. Not that I know of. Mr. JEFFORDS. I wondered. Some of the evidence pointed to a case on that, and I just-Is there a law against prostitution in your State? Mr. GATES. Yes, there is. Mr. JEFFORDS. Basically, can you tell me, just-that is for female, or male, or both, or just Mr. GATES. For both. Mr. JEFFORDS. For both. Mr. GATES. And we enforce it equally. Mr. JEFFORDS. All right. Now, who would be best, you or the investigators, with respect to statistics on people who have been apprehended or arrested under each of these laws, and the number of prosecutions and the number of convictions? Mr. GATES. I think both of these investigators would be much better able to answer those questions. Mr. JEFFORDS. Fine. Thank you very much. Oh, let me ask you, I am sorry Mr. GATES. Sure. Mr. JEFFORDS [continuing]. One more question. How many men do you now have we have got some evidence, but am curious as to how many people you have enforcing the laws that we have talked about with respect to the young people in your area. How many men did you have up until this week? Mr. GATES. Well, we had just a kind of a pickup team, an ad hoc group. Investigator Martin has been working in that field for a long, long time. We have had six people assigned to the unit, with the help of the city council. We are keeping our fingers crossed that nothing happens to that; then we will have a decent size unit. We have had the unit going Mr. JEFFORDS. What will that size of that unit be then? Mr. GATES. That will be eight people. Now, that doesn't give you the extent of it, because we have vice units; we have juvenile officers working throughout the city, and they also would work on this problem. This would be just a specialized unit, with specialized people, working in the field. But all of our investigators, all of our juvenile investigators throughout the city, and that would run well over 100 who would be involved. Mr. JEFFORDS. What are the number of people that you have actively working out in law enforcement, as against administrator-type personnel, in your force? Mr. GATES. I am not sure I understand your question. Mr. JEFFORDS. In other words, I want to know how many are out either investigating, or officers on the beat, or that are actively involved in the area of preventing or investigating crime. Mr. GATES. About 87 percent of our people are out in the field. Mr. JEFFORDS. And how many Mr. GATES. We have 72,000 police officers. Mr. JEFFORDS. 72,000. Thank you very much. Mr. MILLER. Mr. Kildee? Mr. KILDEE. Just briefly. I will probably save most of my questions for your colleagues. Mr. GATES. Yes. Mr. KILDEE. But do you think that if we were to pass my bill, or something similar to my bill, in which the retail outlet for the retailer knew that there was a specific Federal offense involved for selling child pornography with a fine up to $25,000 and 15 years in prison, that this would be a Federal offense, that that would act as an additional deterrent to the sale? Mr. GATES. Yes; I think it would. I think, as I said before, a law is only as good as the implementation of that law, and if there is no impact, if the law has no impact in terms of what happens in court, the law isn't going to make any difference, and that is really what has happened to us. Mr. KILDEE. If the Congress, for example, were to pass this law, and it became known by the retail outlet person that this was a Federal offense, and then, in our appropriations, gave the Department of Justice additional money to have a special unit to enforce this, and to work with local law enforcement officers, do you think that this would help clean up this mess? Mr. GATES. There is no question about it. This is an intrastate and interstate problem, and there is a need for us to have a Federal agency that would assist us in working on this problem. Mr. KILDEE. Thank you very much. Mr. MILLER. Mr. Heftel? Mr. HEFTEL. Is the problem really, though, one of needing new legislation, or rather just simply a combination of enforcement and public support of that enforcement? Mr. GATES. I think new legislation is absolutely necessary, but I think the other ingredients are just as necessary. New legislation is not going to solve the problem, as I indicated originally. New legislation never solves the problem, and until the leadership of this Nation and the State really gets behind, and really says that these kinds of things are bad, the exploitation of our kids is bad, we have got to do something about it-until that happens, until your voices are heard all over this country, in some way, it is just not going to happen. You know, these-I don't know whether you saw, recently, there was a survey. It was in the Los Angeles Times, and we read the Times occasionally, and it talked about institutions, and people in government, and parts of bureaucracy, and what the people thought of the various people in government. And if you noticed, you saw the local law enforcement was right at the top of the list. They had more faith in local law enforcement. If you took a look at courts, prosecutors, and perhaps you might have looked at legislators, and you found that you were way down at the bottom, and one of the reasons is that people like Investigator Pruitt, Investigator Martin are out there doing the job, daily. They are on the street. The people see them. They have got eight fingers in the dike, and they have only got two more left, and then the dike is going to break. So, what I am saying is that we are pleading to you as the Nation's elected leadership to set the tone in this country, not just by passing a law, but by speaking out, by doing what Congressman Dornan is doing, speaking out about these kinds of things, in your own way, with your own views, with your own philosophies, but saying that the use of our children is bad; the abuse, the exploitation of our children is bad. It has got to stop, or the Nation isn't going to survive; and, quite frankly, if it doesn't stop, I am not sure it deserves to survive. Mr. HEFTEL. Mr. Chairman, I still have a basic problem that does not tell me that what we are suffering from is a lack of legislation on the books, but rather a commitment to enforcement of the law, and I don't know how Congress is going to substitute for local enforcement of the law. Mr. MILLER. Well, let me suggest something, if we might, Mr. Gates. You have a time problem. You obviously have Mr. GATES. Yes; I might Mr. MILLER. Other duties in your rather large jurisdiction. Would it be possible for you to sit down with others in your Department and indicate what type of legislation this committee should be considering, or-as we are working in conjunction with the House Judiciary Committee; I think that would be very important, because I think a lot of us are concerned. While there is no question we abhor the practice, what we are really concerned about is creating Federal law, Federal legislation, a Federal remedy for dealing with the problem. And a lot of our discussions on the plane coming out here, and so forth, have centered on the question, what do we do to make it easier for local jurisdictions to deal with the problem, whether it be the State, the county, or the city law enforcement agencies to deal with it, and that is our concern, that we don't get into the situation where we are trying to impose our solution on your problem; and I think that that has been a problem in the past. Mr. GATES. I agree. Mr. MILLER. And we would like to make that part of the record. If you could do that over the next few days, I think it would be very helpful, keeping in mind the questions that Mr. Jeffords has asked Mr. Kildee and Mr. Heftel about what is the way to approach this; because we don't sit here suggesting that we have the absolute right answer, or one that will even be helpful to you. It may be helpful to us politically, but it may not do a hell of a lot for you in terms of being effective. Mr. GATES. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. Mr. JEFFORDS. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one brief question Mr. MILLER. Yes. Mr. JEFFORDS [continuing]. Otherwise, the question is going to nag me the rest of the day. You have been given an initial appropriation of $300,000, and you now Mr. GATES. Not yet. We are Mr. JEFFORDS. Oh. Mr. GATES. If the Council has approved it, if the mayor doesn't veto it, and it holds up, we will have it, yes. Mr. JEFFORDS. You now have six, and you are going to increase it to eight, and I just-I didn't know you paid your officers that well. I cannot ask that question. Mr. GATES. Let me say, we have none, really. What we have done is, as I said, we have a pickup team, an ad hoc group that we put together. These are people at the basic level. What we hope to do is bring in people with investigative skills that we do not have. We expect to bring in equipment, the kinds of equipment that we do not have presently. Mr. JEFFORDS. In other words, you are going to shift the present six, probably, to other duties, and then bring in eight new people? Mr. GATES. Well, we are going to hold the six for a while, also. We will hold the six in that unit. But we do pay well, and $300,000 doesn't go very far these days. Mr. JEFFORDS. Thank you. Mr. MILLER. So we have found out. Thank you very much for your time. Mr. GATES. Thank you. Mr. MILLER. Miss Pruitt, go ahead and proceed. However, you might-we have your prepared statement, and that will be made part of the record. You can either read it or summarize it, whatever you are most comfortable doing.. [Statement and material of Barbara Pruitt follows:] |