Mr. BAUMGARTNER. I am inclined to agree. I think there is no question that either a judge or a jury would not look toward the abuse of children as it would toward what we might consider to be ordinary adult pornography. I do not think the first amendment would come into play as much.

If I may, just for a moment, I would just like to read something to you that might be of interest in connection with the first amendment problem.

There is a recent article that appeared in Newsday by an attorney named Charles Rembar.

Mr. BIAGGI. He will be testifying today.

Mr. BAUMGARTNER. I was going to quote from some of his statements. I am glad he is going to testify.

Mr. KILDEE. I find your statement declaring child pornography as contraband very interesting and very attractive as another tool.

From your testimony, it seems that both your legal and your moral philosophy is that the person who sells child pornography is really an accessory after the fact.

Mayor BEAME. As a layman, I say he is damned guilty and should be punished.

Mr. KILDEE. Thank you very much.

Mr. BIAGGI. Mr. Weiss?

Mr. WEISS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really only have one comment, Mr. Mayor, and that is, as in so many other areas of New York City's problems, much of the problem in this area is accelerated by the fact that the City becomes a mecca for runaway young people who then become victims and are exploited. I am pleased that the Federal Government and the Congress are taking greater note of the fact that the City needs help in assistance with these problems.

Thank you again.

Mayor BEAME. Thank you.

Mr. BIAGGI. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, we appreciate your appearance. We will have a 5-minute recess.

[A brief recess was taken.]

Mr. BIAGGI. The committee will come to order.

Our next witness is a pioneer and crusader in connection with child abuse, Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber who is president of Mabon Odyssey House, Ward Island, N.Y.

[A prepared statement by Judianne Densen-Gerber follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JUDIANNE DENSEN-GERBER, JD., MD., F.C.L.M.

On January 13 of this year, I gave the first of many news conferences designed to move America from an overall attitude of hating its children to concern and caring by each and every community for its young. The Odyssey family asked then and asks now that other Americans join with us in proclaiming 1977 "The Year of the Child" and making such the reality.

During the Bicentennial year, Odyssey Institute's Concerns of Children Division commenced a petition campaign to collect 1 million signatures to present to President Carter urging that he declare America's children the Nations' first priority and most valuable natural resource, and that he establish a Special Action Office within the White House which would eventually evolve into a Cabinet post for the concerns of children. America should have a Secretary committed to the future sitting beside the Minister of War, euphemistically called the Secretary of Defense. While our petition campaign moves ahead, many more volunteers and names are needed.

Due to the establishment of this concerns of children division, Odyssey has become a clearinghouse nationwide for the identifying and reporting of the many atrocities against our young: For instance, first, the admission by the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect, a Federal agency, that 1 million children at any given moment are in danger of their lives at the hands of their parents or custodians-(Odyssey believes the number to be closer to 4 million); second, while America gave the world the polio vaccine which potentially can eradicate this scourge from the face of the Earth as we have done with smallpox, 52 million American children under the age of five remain unprotected; and third, America ranks 31st worldwide in infant mortality for her non-white peoples and 16th overall. We, who are first in the space race, cannot be first in our own children's survival.

But, today, I want to share with you yet another atrocity that has come to my attention through Odyssey's Concerns of Children Division-the million dollar sex for sale industry exploiting America's children ages 3 to 16-both through prostitution and pornography.

In August 1976, Senator Birch Bayh sent me the excellent book by Robin Lloyd, an investigative reporter for NBC in Los Angeles, entitled "For Money or Love: Boy Prostitution in America." Senator Bayh was struck by the fact that both Lloyd and I, working at opposite ends of the country on two different areas of child abuse (he, sexual-I, drug-related physical abuse and neglect) should reach a similar solution; namely the establishment of a Cabinet post on behalf of our young.

Lloyd's book documented the involvement of 300,000 boys, aged 8 to 16, in activities revolving around sex for sale. He noted there were over 264 different boy and girl magazines being sold in adult book stores nationwide. These magazines-well-produced-sell for prices averaging over $7 each. Most of the children exploited are runaways from extremely abusive and neglectful homesmost, that is, if the children are 8 years old and above. However, younger children used in the production of pornography, some as young as 3, must be provided by their parents or guardians who are themselves often drug addicts, porn performers, or prostitutes, or more frequently, parents having incestuous relationships with their children which they wish to memorialize in photographs or movies to exchange with others who belong to clubs or groups advocating this type of activity. There is one group in southern California whose slogan is "sex by eight or it's too late." Too late for what? To grow up unscarred, loved and protected; this one representation of the kooky fringe claims 2,500 members. A common sense guesstimate on my part leads me to believe that if there are 300,000 boys, there must be a like number of girls-heterosexual conduct still being more prevalent than homosexual-but no one has bothered to count the females involved. Lloyd postulates but cannot substantiate that only half of the true number of children are known. Therefore, the possible figure is closer to 1.2 million nationwide a not improbable figure, considering the nation's 1 million runaways. How else can a 12 year old support him or herself?

In an April Ms. Magazine article the following startling fact was noted: “One girl out of every four in the United States will be sexually abused in some way before she reaches the age of 18." Researchers working with deviant women report that 50 to 70 percent have been sexually traumatized as children. This is truly an illustration of the sins of the fathers being reaped by the children. While we hide from the knowledge of the incest violation, our concern in the area of the commercial sexual abuse of children is even less. Only six States specifically prohibit the participation of minors in an obscene performance which could be harmful to them (Connecticut, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas). There is no Federal statute specifically regulating the distribution of sexual materials to children. There is likewise no Federal statute involving interstate commerce which specifically regulates or restricts the production, distribution, or marketing of this material. Forty-seven States and the District of Columbia have some form of laws pertaining to the dissemination of obscene materials to minors.

. State criminal statutes which deal with sex crimes often are not helpful, either because the physical activity does not meet the criteria of the statute, for example, rape, sodomy, sexual abuse, or because they are so broadly worded as to discourage courts from applying them in terms of significant penalties.

Many States have child welfare provisions with their education law which regulate the employment of children in commercial activities. Unfortunately, these same laws either abdicate control when the child is working for a parent

or the sanctions are so limited as to pose no deterrent, for example, $10 fine or 10 days in jail.

Given the paucity of legislation which specifically relates to this activity, there can be little wonder at the relatively scarce attempts at law enforcement. The problems of casefinding and evidence are compounded by a confusion between sexploitation as a form of child abuse and adult obscenity matters. These problems and the attitudes of many judges discourage and actually thwart the few criminal investigations attempted. This year, when one of America's leading pornographers, Edward Mishken, was arrested in New York, one-third of the 2,000 square feet of material confiscated involved children. Mr. Mishken pleaded guilty and in spite of the fact that he had many previous convictions, Judge Irving Lang sentenced him to 27 consecutive weekends in jail-I assume so that his workweek destroying children would not be interrupted. We, as citizens, must ask why Judge Lang did not give Mishken the 7-year sentence permitted. Mishken was rearrested on like charges within 1 week.

On January 12 at the Crossroads Store in New York, I purchased "Lollitots", a magazine showing girls 8 to 14, and "Moppets", children aged 3 to 12, as well as playing cards which pictured naked, spread-eagled children. Also I looked at a film depicting children violently deflowered on their communion day at the feet of a "freshly crucified" priest replacing Jesus upon the cross. Next, I saw a film showing an alleged father engaged in uralalia with his 4-year-old daughter. Of 64 films presented for view, 19 showed children and an additional 16 involved incest.

I have urged citizens to write to their Federal and State legislators urging support of the three-pronged approach suggested by Odyssey's law and medicine institute. First, to make changes in your State educational law to require licensing of all media involving children and to prohibit children from participating in any acts which are sexually explicit. Any materials produced in violation would be confiscated and fines would be imposed for violations. Second, to strengthen the child abuse and neglect statutes to include commercial sexual exploitation of children and to make the finding of venereal disease in children under 12 an automatic presumption of child abuse and neglect. In 1976, Connecticut passed a law on veneral disease because there had been two cases of gonorrhea of the throat in children under 18 months of age and one in a child 9 months old within that State. And third, to create greater penalties under the criminal obscenity laws where the offending material involves persons under 16. Within this area, there must be both Federal and State legislation and law enforcement roles.

In the recent months since January 1977 when I have personally purchased magazines carrying the titles "Nudist Moppets", "Lollitots", "Chicken Delight", "Lust for Children", "Schoolgirls", "Naughty Horny Imps", "Chicken Love", "Child Discipline" and films such as "Children Love" and "Lollipops No. 10" in cities such as New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Washington, New Orleans, Detroit, Flint, Chicago, San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles, Sydney, Melbourne, and Canberra, I have become angered beyond description. There comes a point where we can no longer defend by intellectualization or forensic debate. We must simply say: "I know the difference between right and wrong and I am not afraid to say 'no' or demand that limits be imposed."

Common sense and maternal instinct tell me that this goes way beyond free speech. Such conduct mutilates children's spirits; they aren't consenting adults, they're victims. The first amendment isn't absolute. Furthermore, even if I had to give up a portion of my first amendment rights to stop this stuff, then I'd be willing to do it. When our Constitution and Bill of Rights were written, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, and Washington were interested in guaranteeing the right to religious, political, and philosophical debate-not to publish a primer instructing a sex molester on how to pick up a child in the park and subsequently assault her ("Lust for Children") or a booklet advocating that a father have incest with his daughter and illustrating positions to be used if she, at nine, is too small for normal penetration ("Schoolgirls", Los Angeles, and "Preteen Sexuality", Philadelphia). If we use constitutional rights to justify intercourse with children ***. In summary, sadly, there is many a scoundrel wrapped in the American flag.

We are not going to produce mentally healthy and happy children by issuing an executive order that all children must be loved *** but we can author legis. lation to protect them and give them a fighting chance in this world. To paraphrase Camus, who spoke for all of us who in some way work with children:

"Perhaps we cannot prevent this America from being an America in which children are tortured *** but can we reduce the number of tortured children. And if you don't help us in this *** who else in this world can ***?

STATEMENT OF JUDIANNE DENSEN-GERBER, PRESIDENT, MABON ODESSEY HOUSE, WARD ISLAND, N.Y., ACCOMPANIED BY STEPHEN J. HUTCHINSON, VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL, ODESSEY INSTITUTE, AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR LAW AND MEDICINE, DIVISION OF ODESSEY INSTITUTE

MS. DENSEN-GERBER. You know I am very informal and you know me well. I thought we would chat. I do have a prepared statement that I introduced to the House Judiciary Committee last week. Obviously, there is not that much difference between last week and this week.

I would like to focus today particularly on the area of education, because this is the Select Committee on Education. Before I start, I would like to do something very unusual for me, and that is to make a personal request publicly.

I received today in the mail a letter from the Federal Government saying that the research project out of which most of this work has come does end September 1. Unfortunately, they cannot find a way to renew it in any way.

I must be paranoid to believe that I must be making somebody very uncomfortable, and I know that they have money for marihuana and cigarettes.

I think that Odyssey, along with its institute for law and medicine, should continue. Without the work of Odyssey, I do not think that this particular problem would have surfaced.

I think it is sad that the Federal Government finds that after September 1 that they will have no money for us to take a look at the concerns of children.

Mr. BIAGGI. We will look into it, I promise you.

MS. DENSEN-GERBER. Let me talk about a few things I have here. We do tend, in the legislation, which is excellent and the first beginning to focus on the children being used directly in the making of this material, we do not focus on the fact that there are millions of people, perhaps, buying this material; and the reason they buy this material is to go home and act out against their own children or neighborhood children.

The material definitely encourages, rationalizes, and justifies sexual activity with children, and that is one of the most severe problems with it.

You have heard Dr. Henry Genetta and his incest program. In the United States, children from 50 cases 3 years ago and 350 last year. Over 400 will surface this year. We do not think this is better reporting. We think there is actually more sexual violence to children.

Our project has shown that the drug addicts that we treat, the women, 44 percent of them are incest victims, and they come from all over the United States, 75 percent before they were 12, 45 percent before they were 9.

This magazine has the following stories: "My Daddy Taught Me How To S ," "My Cherry's Gone and I'm Glad;" "It

Hurts, But Push Harder", and "My Virgin C is Wet and Ready."

That kind of material has one definite focus and should certainly be deemed to incite to criminal activity with violation of children.

Another magazine, bought by my 17-year-old for the Congressional hearing last week in Washington which was discounted because she was only 17, and they hoped she would appear in a movie, is called "Family F "-the family who f together, stays together; still another kind of promotion of that kind of activity. This magazine, made in America, was bought by me in Sydney, Australia. I have been saying to Senator Heinz, I could not get his ketchup, but I could get child pornography in Australia 3 or 4 days after it appeared on the newsstands here, so it is really an international problem as well, which the Australians will be bringing to the United Nations this fall.

Odyssey has opened in Australia. We have our first foreign branch. Here we have a magazine produced with a California child, SchoolGirls, which is to the exact details of even the father's wedding ring, how to penetrate a 9-year-old.

Also, work in Australia has shown that prepubescent intercourse with a child is the one single correlating factor that they now have with the incidences of cervical carcinoma of women in their twenties and thirties. Therefore, the protection of children from intercourse in that age is necessary not only emotionally and psychologically, but necessary physically to prevent these girls from having to have hysterectomies at 28 to 29.

This magazine, purchased in Philadelphia, also tells how to have intercourse with a preteen child. This one in Chicago, in which there are no obscenity laws whatsoever, tells you if you beat your child, you will have a better orgasm following, and it encourages violence.

This particular magazine talks about sex and how a supposed minister in the Government can go to the park, pick up two little girls, the kind of games he can play with them to get them to consent and the activity that he can engage in without their being signs on the child's body afterwards.

This magazine I show you because it is the only one I have been able to purchase in the United States using a black child. This is almost exclusively a Caucasian problem and the men who have been seen buying are predominantly white. This is not a black, ghetto problem. This is much more of a white instance.

I show this one because this is a picture that I cannot get away from, and that is of a supposed 6-year-old-to me, she looks closer to 4, all kinds of sexual poses. It gets that young.

I do also have movies which we can show towards the very end because by the time we have the movies, we cannot talk any longer about the children being innocent and not knowing what is going on in the movies. They definitely know what is going on.

This particular magazine I have here because it is homosexual, not heterosexual. The child is stoned on drugs.

The last one goes one step further and shows the affixing of a lock to a child's vulva in order that no man be able to have her other than her father. It is a step-by-step putting on this lock so anyone who did not know how to do it would now be able to.