Q. Do you know Andrew Busch?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know any thing of his conduct on the evening of the election ?

A. No; I did not take notice.

Q. Do you recollect, when Mannhardt came in to vote ?

A. No sir, I was absent.

Q. Did you ever attend these German meetings previous to the election?

A. Yes.

Q. Were the meetings ever disorderly, or were they orderly? A. It was always opened with prayer, and then went on as quietly as meetings generally are, without any uproar.

Q. Were you ever at the meetings in Plumb street?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you at the meeting there a short time before the elec tion, in the fall of 1815, when they did not go on with their business, because of interruption?

A. No, I was not at that meeting.

Q. Were you at the meeting in the Northern Liberties?

A. Yes. When the meeting was going on pretty quietly, Busch came in and took a seat. A few words ensued, Busch made some remarks, that were not decent, they thought. It caused some disturbance and uproar.

Q. Can you state the words, or the substance of them?

A. I do not recollect the words.

Q. What was his object?

A. Bringing an uneasiness or inquietude on the meeting.
Q. What point had he in view?

A. He was alone, and could not have carried a point if he had intended. I cannot say what he had in view.

Cross examined.

Q. You stated, Mr. File belongs to St. Paul's church; does he take his children with him ?

A. Not knowing, can't say.

Q. Do you carry with you your children to meeting?

A. I have none. My nephews, I tell them to go to church.
Q. Where do your nephews go?

A. I do not know.

Q. Were you in church, when the sailors came from the vessel. to vote?

A. No.

Q. Do you recollect, whether, on the question put by Witman, with regard to the repeal of the bye-law, you did not give the casting vote?

A. I gave a vote on it.

Q. We do not want to know that; did you not give the casting vote?

A. After the vote was taken, they said, I ought to give the cast ing vote, I did so.

Q. Did you not give two votes on that occasion ?

A. I do not know, if I had voted they would have been equal, and I gave the casting vote. Those who were for it, stood up and the other side sat down; I stood up; they mentioned to me, that if I had not got up, as I had no right to do, they would have been equal. This was not mentioned for some time afterwards.

Q. Can you recollect how many were present of the members of the corporation?

2

A. No. We never do business, without there is a quórum of sixteen, sometimes there are seventeen.

Q. Do you not know, now, there was a tie of votes ?

A. I did not at the time, but it must have been so. No man told me, I voted, when I ought not. It must have been equal. Q. Do you know whether the number was equal at that time? A. I cannot say; we never do business without sixteen.

Q. Do you know whether any body's back was against the stove? A. I saw people's backs against the stove, I do not know which, I saw a good many against it.

Q. How near were you to the stove P

A. Within four or five feet.

Q. Was there a good number of people between you and the

stove ?

A. A good many.

Q. Were you sitting down?

A. I cannot tell.

HENRY LINK, Sworn. A member of the German Lutheran congregation about thirty-six years. Have been a member of the corporation six years this year.

Q. Were you present when Mr. Witman made a motion with regard to repealing the bye-law Pol

A. When he nominated Mr. Krebs and Mr. Geyer, some of us asked him if he was president. The question was taken, who was for this bye-law should be repealed, should say, yes, and those against it, no. They could not decide by yes and no; they made them sit down, and those who were for it should signify by rising. The question was put to rising, and when we counted, there was nine, and afterwards they sat down, and those who were against it, rose, there was nine also, and Mr. Honey voted. It stood as it was, the resolution, it was laid on the book.

Q. Were the ministers present?

A. Yes, I believe they were. Dr. Schaeffer, I am certain, was there.

Q. Did he vote?

A. No sir; we adjourned. It was left to the president to chuse these assessors, he did not say, when, where or how.

F

Q. Were you there at the opening ?,

A. No sir, when I came about eleven o'clock, it was all quiet; I staid there about a quarter of an hour, and went away; the stove was tossed over.

Q. Did you see any man abused by the constable?

A. No, I did not see any thing of that kind. I heard of it, but did not see it.'

Q. Were you at any meeting in the Northern Liberties, held by the German congregation ?

A. No sir, I attended none of their meetings at all.

Q. Have you attended the general election of that congregation for the last twenty years, regularly?

A. No, I did not care any thing about the election.
Q. Have you attended for the last three years? *
A. Yes.

Q.

Did you ever know of the inspectors being appointed by the congregation ?

A. No sir. I never went to an election before that time.

Q. Do you belong to the society, called the fippenny-bit society? A. No sir, I did belong to it once, about eight or nine years ago, but I quit.

Q. Were you at the meeting in Plumb street?

A. No sir.

Adjourned.

MONDAY, 15th JULY, 1816, 10 O'CLOCK A. M.

REVD. DR. SCHAEFFER.-Q. Is George Witman related to George Krebs? Did he not marry the daughter of Krebs? A. Yes sir.

Q. Is not William Wagner related to George Krebs ?

A. Yes sir, Mr. Wagner's sister was married to Mr. George Krebs.

Q. Can you say whether Peter Lex's son was not married to Charles Eberle's daughter?

A. As far as I know, I believe Jacob Lex, Peter Lex's son is married to Charles Eberle's daughter.

Q. Do you know the Revd. Mr. Baker of Germantown?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Is he a preacher ?

A. Yes sir; he is a preacher of our congregation.

Q. Does he preach in English?

A. I heard him preach in English, at a funeral, near Frankfort meeting house. I never heard him in church, that I recollect. Q. Is he not a step-son of George Krebs ?

A. He is a son of his wife.

Q. Do you know whether the Revd. Mr. Baker is not married to Charles Eberle's daughter?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know whether Jacob Mechlin's sister is not married to William Wagner P

A. Yes sir, she is.

Q. Can you say, whether George Woelper is related to Witman ?

A. He is a relation, but I do not know how near. I never inquired.

Q. Is not George Woélper an uncle to Henchman's wife?
A. Yes sir, I believe he is.

Q. Can you tell me, if Caspar Rehn is not married to Mr. Lex's daughter?

A. Yes, he is.

1

Q. What has been the conversation between you and Witman, since the election upon this subject?

A. I cannot exactly recollect.

Q. Has he not been frequently at your house since ?

A. Not frequently, to my knowledge. If my memory does not fail me, he was there once from the election 'till last Whitsunday, he was not there oftener to my recollection.

Q. What was the subject of conversation?

A. Perhaps they were upon family affairs, I do not recollect, whether they had any tendency to these disputes. I avoided any such conversation relative to this dispute, and I did not wish it. He was a member of our congregation.

Q. Has he been at your house within a day or two, or within a

week?

A. Not to my recollection; may be, he was there last week, I do not exactly remember what day; but I doubt whether we had much conversation about these matters; Witman is a relation of my son, a minister at Frederick town. Mr. Witman's wife, and my son's wife are sisters. It was quite a natural thing, for him to step in to see his brother-in-law; I could not tell him not to come in. I can safely say, I never advised with either the one or other party.

Cross examined.

Q. Will you have the goodness to let me know who are Mannhardt's relations in this congregation?

A. I do not know. I believe he is a single man, he has no relations, I know of.

Q. Do you know, that he is related to all, or any of the congregation ?

A. I never made any inquiry; I do not know of any to whom he is related. >

Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. Weckerle's family connexións? A. Not in the least.

Q. Are you acquainted with Fricke's family connexions?

A. Yes, I am acquainted with his brother-in-law, a respectable man, Fricke married his sister.

Q. You stated you had a son, who is a preacher at Fredericktown, have you another son, a preacher P ?

A. Yes sir, I have one at New-York.

Q. Do you know whether either of them preach English? A. Yes sir, the one in New-York preaches in both languages, Q. Did either of your sons preach lately in Philadelphia? A. Yes sir, he preached at St. John's, at the particular request of Mr. Meyers; he belongs to that synod.

Q. Will you state whether your son preached in German in any of the churches in Philadelphia P

A. He did not preach in our churches during his stay here. YEATES, JUDGE. Do you know the Lutheran minister at Lancaster?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Do you know whether he preaches in English?

A. I cannot state, for certain, whether he does or not.

Q. Can you state why your son did not preach in Zion or St. Michael's churches; was he not prevented, because he spoke in English in the morning?

A. It was my advice to him not to preach in our churches, as he had preached in the other.

Q. Were you not called upon by Mr. Dreer and some other members of the congregation, and informed that he could not be permitted to preach, because of his having preached in the other church?

A. Those gentlemen called on me; I do not know that they stated, he should not, but from the conversation, it appeared it would not be agreeable, because he had preached in St. John's church. It was determined, before they called, that he would not preach there.

Q. Have you ever heard your son preach in New-York?

A. Yes sir, I heard him last fall.

Q. In German?

A. No sir, I preached in the forenoon in German, and he in the afternoon, in English.

Q. Have you ever heard him preach German ?

A. Yes sir.

Q. Did you hear him when he preached here ?.
A. No sir, I did not, nor any of my family,

JOHN GOODMAN, Esq.-Did you make a translation of this byelaw ?

A. I did. Mr. Fricke and Mr. Hoeckley called upon me last Saturday, and wished me to examine this translation with the German, having shewn me the German copy and the printed copy in English, and to correct such errors as might appear, I did so; and in comparing the printed English translation with the German copy, the following amendments appeared to be proper. (Mr. Goodman then exhibited several passages, in which the terms had