In Oregon eight per cent. is the legal rate, but parties may agree in writing to a rate not exceeding twelve per cent.

In Pennsyivania six per cent.; and a contract for a higher rate is not binding. A bare purchase of a bond or note may be made at any discount without being usurious. You cannot go and borrow money under our laws unless you have a broker, if you pay a higher rate, and have it legal; but you can make a mortgage or issue a bond, and sell it at fifty cents on the dollar if you desire to do so; you are on the backward track and have no right to go on the forward, upward track.

In Rhode Island the legal rate of interest is six per cent, when no rate is agreed upon by the parties. Any rate fixed by the contracting parties is legal.

In South Carolina in all cases of contracts for the legal hiring, lending or use of money, wherein by the terms of the original contract no special rate of interest shall have been agreed upon in writing, signed by the parties, the legal interest is at the rate of seven per cent. per annum. The usury laws are abolished and parties may contract without limit.

In Tennessee the general rate of interest is six per cent., but recently the law has been so modified as to allow ten per cent. to be specially contracted for.

In Texas eight per cent. is the legal rate, and the new Constitution does away with usurious restrictions.

Maryland has her legal rate of interest fixed in the Constitution also. It is said that the legal rate of interest is fixed by the Constitution. The Legislature may change it, but it is mentioned in the Constitution.

In Wisconsin seven per cent. is the legal rate. Parties may agree, in writing, on any rate not exceeding ten per cent.

Mr. Chairman, our distinguished friend has stated that in 1866 there were only ten States in this Union that varied from our own State. Now, we find from 1866 to 1873, only eight States that have not gone forward in the drift of progress and changed their rate of interest and made a liberal rate to suit the agricultural interests and the wants of the country over these thirty-one States. In 1866, there were only ten. I want to show that the people all over the country are thinking of this subject, and that they have in their Constitutions, and by their laws made by the Legislature, repealed their old laws to give people an opportunity to come

forward with money and bargain face to face. All men that have money ought to be capable of taking care of it; if not, let there be guardians or trustees appointed for them; and if they have not wisdom enough to do that, they have not wisdom enough to keep their money, let the Constitution put all the restrictions it may around them.

I speak of this entirely for the interests of this State. I have not the slightest selfish motive or view in it. I never expect to become a heavy borrower or loaner of money. The little surplus that I have, outside of enough to conduct my business, I generally put into some real estate or improvement that will tend to build up the city in which I live and the State of which I claim to be a citizen, and therefore I wish to throw away any such impression which may possibly exist.

We know further that the national bank law is that the national banks located in any State or Territory shall be at liberty to charge the rate of interest allowed in the State where they are located. The national banks of New York are at liberty to charge to their customers seven per cent. The national banks of Pennsylvania are at liberty to charge only six per cent. People who want to establish a national bank will go where they have a chance of getting one per cent. more for their money. The great balances of the west, particularly that seek an eastern city where they can draw upon their funds, flow to the city of New York. Why? Because the banks of New York

Mr. CORBETT. I should like to interrupt the gentleman. Do the national banks of Philadelphia confine themselves to six per cent ?

Mr. KNIGHT. Entirely so.

Mr. CORBETT. If they do, they do more than they do in the rest of the State. Mr. DARLINGTON. Not more so than we do in Chester county.

Mr. KNIGHT. I have been a bank director here and I have never known them to charge more than six per cent. They may expect some balance to stay

Mr. NILES. They sell exchange. Mr. KNIGHT. The people of the west having these balances send them, as I say, where they can get the best rate of interest. Now the New York bankers and the New York saving funds can allow five per cent., because they can re-loan at seven. Philadelphia saving institutions can only allow four per cent., because

they can get but six. Therefore, we are discriminating against ourselves here to the extent of one per cent., which is the cause of so little floating capital being in this city.

Mr. J. N. PURVIANCE. Ishould like to hear the gentleman from Philadelphia further, and I move, with his consent, that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The motion was agreed to. The committee rose; and the President pro tem. having resumed the chair, the Chairman

(Mr. Cuyler) reported that the committee of the whole had had under consideration the article (No. 11) reported by the Committee on Agriculture, Mining, Manufactures and Commerce, and had instructed him to report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Leave was granted the committee of the whole to sit again to-morrow.

Mr. CORBETT. I move that we adjourn. The motion was agreed to; and (at six o'clock and two minutes P. M.) the Convention adjourned.

FRIDAY, May 16, 1873. The Convention met at ten o'clock A.M., Hon. John H. Walker, President pro tem, in the chair.

Prayer by Rev. J. W. Curry.

The Journal of yesterday was read and approved.

INVITATION TO ALLENTOWN.

The PRESIDENT pro tem. A letter addressed to the President of the Convention which has been received, will be read. The CLERK read as follows:

"MAYOR'S OFFICE, CITY OF ALLENTOWN, PA., May 14, 1873.

Hon. Wm. M. Meredith, President of Con

stitutional Convention:

RESPECTED SIR-I enclose preamble and resolution passed by the councils of this city, at their regular meeting last evening.

In pursuance of this I respectfully extend an invitation to your honorable body, when you do adjourn over the warm months, to re-convene at Allentown. We feel assured that we can fully furnish all accommodations. Please answer. I am, very respectfully, Your obedient servant, T. C. YEAGER, Mayor. "WHEREAS, We have learned that the Constitutional Convention now sitting in Philadelphia propose adjourning during the summer months to some inland city,

therefore

"Resolved, That the mayor be authorized and directed to extend an invitation to the President of the Convention, inviting them to adjourn to Allentown."

Mr. J. PRICE WETHERILL. I move that the thanks of this Convention be extended to the mayor and councils of Allentown and that the invitation be respectfully declined.

Mr. LILLY. I move to postpone the consideration of the motion for the pres

ent.

The motion to postpone was agreed to.

PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS.

Mr. GUTHRIE presented two petitions of citizens of Allegheny county and one of

citizens of Butler and Allegheny counties, praying for the insertion of a clause in the Constitution recognizing Almighty God and the christian religion, which were laid on the table.

DEBTORS' EXEMPTION.

Mr. PATTON submitted the following resolution, which was twice read and referred to the Committee on Legislation.

Resolved, That the Committee on Legislation be requested to report the following as supplementary to their report:

"All laws exempting property from levy and sale shall be inviolate, and any contract or agreement waiving the right of any debtor to such exemption shall be null and void. And the Legislature shall enact such laws as will effectually prevent debtors being deprived of the rights of such exemption."

COMPENSATION OF MEMBERS.

Mr. CURRY. I offer the following resotion:

"WHEREAS, The Legislature has repealed that portion of the act providing for calling a Convention to amend the Constitution, which fixes the salary to be paid to its members, and has appropriated the sum of five hundred thousand dollars for salaries and other ne

cessary expenses; therefore,

Resolved, That a committee of seven be appointed by the President to consider and report upon the amount of salary to be received by the members of the Convention.

The resolution was read twice and considered.

Mr. HARRY WHITE. I move that the resolution be postponed for the present. Mr. C. A. BLACK. I second that motion.

Mr. NILES. I move to amend that motion by moving to postpone indefinately.

Mr. NILES. Before that vote is taken, though I did not offer this resolution, I desire to say one word, without committing myself upon the question of salary at all. It seems to me eminently wise and proper at this time, after we have been in session nearly six months, that some ac

tion should be taken in reference to this question. We must meet it either one way or the other. The Legislature in their wisdom have repealed the original act fixing the salary at $1,000. The duty now devolves upon us either of fixing it or not. We cannot shirk the question; and it seems to me that the proper way to meet it, and meet it fairly and squarely like men, is to appoint a committee. Let them review the whole question and make their report to the Convention, and when the report is made we can adopt it or reject it as we see fit. At this late hour in the session, after our time here has exceeded the anticipation of everybody, it seems to me that we might as well meet it in this way, and meet it fairly and squarely, and refer it to a committee to be appointed by the President. I do not think we are to gain anything by shifting the responsibility or postponing the evil day.

Mr. CARTER. Mr. President: I am in favor of this postponement for the reason that neither a committee nor this body can act intelligently on this matter at present. The gentleman assumes that we are near the end of our labors. I hope so; but I know not whether it be so or not. It is very evident that no one knows or can tell or forsee the end; consequently we do not know what is a proper amount of salary, or to fix the pay of members of this body. Therefore, the measure is certainly premature. Let us work earnestly, and devote all our energies in every possible way to the work before us, and then in a month or so hence it will be time enough to consider this matter, for then we can act intelligently, and then we shall know what would be a proper compensation to fix for the services of members of this body. Mr. HARRY WHITE. I have but one remark to make upon this subject. I made the motion to postpone for the present, which has been amended by the motion to postpone indefinitely; and I sm content with the action of the Convention in the premises. I think it would be wise to postpone this question; I think it would be very unwise to take action upon it at this time.

I have no desire to attempt any demagoguism upon this or any other question. I presume no delegate to this body has such desire. I think it unwise to take action thus early in the session. I mean thus early after the Legislature have passed the modification of the organic

act upon this subject. I think it unwise because we cannot show to the people that we have taken final action upon any one article of the Constitution.

I was at my home the other day among my constituents, and the natural question arose: "What has been done? What are you doing? You are a long time in session." "Well, we have gone through the committee of the whole." They did not all understand that. I could not say that we had taken final action upon any one article. Not one delegate in this body can face his constituents and say that final action has been taken by this Convention upon any one article proposed for amendment. In view of this, in view of the fact that we do not know how long our labors will continue, I think we ought not to be unnecessarily anxious upon the subject of pay.

We know, Mr. President, how sensitive the public is upon this question, and we owe it to ourselves and the great reform with which we are connected, to act prudently in this matter. If the impression obtains and goes abroad that there is more selfishness, more regard for the individual interests of the delegates themselves than for the work they are performing, they who finally pass upon our work will be prejudiced against our entire labors Hence I think it wise for us to wait until we have made further progress, until we have taken final action upon something, until we have made some progress and shall be able to see where we are.

For these reasons, and these alone, I made the motion to postpone the consideration of this question for the present.

Then again, Mr. President, it cannot be said that members are suffering for want of action in regard to their salary, for I understand, I know indeed, that some delegates have necessarily called upon the State Treasurer for advances upon their pay. He has responded, and I presume the majority of delegates have received some advances in that respect. I apprehend that no suffering exists in this regard. But, sir, prejudice may arise in the public mind against our action if we hasten to fix the salary before we can show them any of our work.

Mr. HUNSICKER. Will the gentleman allow me to make a suggestion to him? Mr. HARRY WHITE. Certainly.

Mr. HUNSICKER. I understand this proposition to be simply to appoint a committee to consider this subject, not for us to take final action this morning.

Mr. HARRY WHITE. Well, Mr. President, it is unusual in that respect. We have a Committee on Expenditures and Accounts, and I think it unwise to appoint a special committee in addition. It looks as if there was some design to do things out of the usual course.

Mr. CURRY. Mr. President: I offered the resolution with pure motives and good intentions. Little did I think that the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. Harry White) would attempt to defeat it by his unwise counsel, as he has done. I think the wisest course for the gentleman from Indiana would have been to say nothing at all and simply permit this subject to go to the committee, as it will whether he is wise or unwise on the subject. That is all we ask. The idea is simply to put this question at rest for the time being; and when the proper time comes, I hope that the members of the Convention will meet the question squarely like men, not like political trimmers, not like political demagogues, not like men who are afraid to assume any responsibility, not like men who are so afraid of their constituents that they dare not do what they believe to be right. The truth will bear a man out wherever he goes. That which is right is what the peple expect us to do in this and in every other case. The committee may report a great deal less than the Legislature indicated for ninety days; they may report a little more. We have no idea what they will report nor when they will report. Therefore I think it was exceedingly unwise for the gentleman from Indiana even to make the motion he did.

Mr. NILES. I withdraw my motion for indefinite postponement.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The motion to indefinitely postpone is withdrawn.

Mr. HARRY WHITE. I renew it.

Mr. AINEY. Mr. President: I earnest ly hope that this question will not be forced upon the Convention at this time. We have already said in the article upon legislation that it is improper for a legislative body to fix its own compensation. I voted for that section believing it to be right in principle and wise in policy, and I believe so still. Viewing it in this light I shall oppose any proposition to entrap us here into the inconsistency of saying that it is proper for this body to fix its own compensation. I understand the State Treasurer will pay each of the members of this Convention to the extent of one thousand dollars-as salary.

Mr. NILES. There will not be another dollar paid.

Mr. AINEY. That is a mistake, I think. I am informed the State Treasurer will pay each the members of this Convention to the extent of one thousand dollars. I earnestly hope that it will be left there, and that we will leave the matter with the Legislature to fix, when they assemble next winter, a reasonable and fair compensation for the services rendered as members of this Convention. I hope, therefore, the motion to indefinitely postpone will prevail.

Mr. HAY. I hope the delegate from Lehigh does not suppose that it would be proper for the State Treasurer now to make such payment, even if he were disposed to do so.

Mr. BOWMAN. Mr. President: I am not very sensitive upon this point. The gentleman from Lehigh (Mr. Ainey) says that our better course will be to trust the Legislature to enact another law upon this subject. Why, sir, they have already passed two, one in 1872 and another in 1873, and by the act of 1873 the compensation fixed by the prior act was repealed. I would ask the gentleman by what authority the State Treasurer can pay out one single dollar as a compensation to the members of this Convention, under any existing law? I understand, sir, that the State Treasurer has already paid from seventy-five thousand dollars to eighty thousand dollars, for which he has no voucher more than the honor of the individuals to whom this money has been paid.

Now, one word, sir, in relation to the remarks made by the gentleman from Indi ana (Mr. Harry White.) I am aware that many of the members of this Convention, perhaps a majority of them, occupy positions that are entirely unequal to that occupied by the gentleman from Indiana. I find myself surrounded here by one hundred gentlemen who cannot enter into this contest upon the same terms as the gentleman from Indiana can. As well might a gentleman turn around and say to me that he will flip cents, he using at the same time a double-header and I only a cent with one head upon one side and a tail on the other. He would be sure to win. It would be an unequal contest. No other gentleman holds that position on this floor. It is well enough for him as a double-header to come in and say that gentlemen from the remote parts of this Commonwealth can sacrifice their business and close their office doors, can leave