WEDNESDAY, May 14, 1873. The Convention met at ten o'clock A. M. Prayer by Rev. J. W. Curry. The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved.

USE OF THE HALL.

Mr. NILES. Mr. President: I offer the following resolution:

Resolved, That the use of this Hall be granted to the Women's Centennial Association of America for Friday evening of this week, in aid of the Centennial Celebration of 1876.

The resolution was twice read and adopted.

Mr. MANN. I offer the following resolution:

Resolved, That on and after Monday next the morning sessions of this Convention shall commence at nine o'clock.

On the question of proceeding to the second reading and consideration of the resolution, a division was called for, which resulted, forty-two in the affirmative, twenty-six in the negative.

The resolution was read the second time. Mr. LILLY. I move to amend by striking out "nine," and inserting "nine and a half o'clock."

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. I move to amend the amendment so as to provide that there shall be but one session a day, commencing at nine and a-half o'clock, the hour indicated in the amendment, and ending at three. We shall do more work a good deal in that way.

The PRESIDENT. It is moved and seconded to amend the resolution by making the hour of meeting half-past nine o'clock, and it is moved to amend that amendment by adding that there shall be but one session a day, to close at three o'clock. The question is on the amendment to the amendment.

Mr. BIGLER. I desire only to say, that from what experience I have had in bodies of this kind, I am clear that the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Schuylkill will facilitate the business of the House; that by having one session

from half-past nine to three o'clock, we shall do more business than we do now in two sessions. That is all I desire to say.

The amendment to the amendment was agreed to, there being, on a division: Ayes, thirty-eight; noes, twenty-eight.

The PRESIDENT. The question recurs on the amendment as amended.

The amendment as amended was agreed to, there being, on a division: Ayes, thirty-seven; noes, twenty-seven.

The PRESIDENT. The question now is on the resolution as amended.

Mr. ALRICKS. Let it be read for information.

The CLERK read as follows:

Resolved, That on and after Monday next, the sessions of this Convention shall commence at nine and a half o'clock A. M., and that there shall be but one session, to close at three o'clock P. M.

On the question of the adoption of the resolution as amended, the yeas and nays were required by Mr. Harry White and Mr. De France, and were as follow, viz:

YEAS.

Messrs. Alricks, Baer, Baker, Barclay, Bartholomew, Bigler, Boyd, Broomall, Buckalew, Carey, Clark, Corbett, Corson, Curtin, Darlington, Dunning, Edwards, Ellis, Funck, Gibson, Gilpin, Guthrie, Hanna, Hay, Heverin, Landis, Lilly, MacConnell, M'Clean, Mann, Metzger, Mitchell, Palmer, G. W., Patterson, D. W., Pughe, Purviance, John N., Reed, Andrew, Ross, Smith, Henry W., Van Reed, Wetherill, J. M., Wetherill, John Price, White, Harry and Meredith, President— 44.

NAYS.

Messrs. Achenbac., Baily, (Perry,) Bailey, (Huntingdon,) Beebe, Bowman, Carter, Cochran, Collins, Curry, Davis, De France, Elliott, Fulton, Hall, Harvey, Horton, Hunsicker, Lawrence, M'Cullocɔ, Minor, Newlin, Niles, Patton, Porter, Purviance, Samuel A., Russell, Temple,

ABSENT.-Messrs. Addicks, Ainey, Andrews, Armstrong, Bannan, Bardsley, Biddle, Black, Charles A., Black, J. S., Brodhead, Brown, Campbell, Cassidy, Church, Craig, Cronmiller, Cuyler, Dallas, Dodd, Ewing, Fell, Finney, Gowen, Green, Hazzard, Hemphill, Howard, Kaine, Knight, Lamberton, Lear, Littleton, Long, MacVeagh, M'Camant, M'Murray, Mantor, Mott, Palmer, H. W., Parsons, Patterson, T. H. B., Purinan, Read, John R., Reynolds, Rooke, Runk, Sharpe, Simpson, Smith, H. G., Smith, Wm. H., Stanton, Stewart, Struthers, Walker and Woodward-55.

SATURDAY SESSIONS.

ABSENT.-Messrs. Addicks, Ainey, Andrews, Armstrong, Bannan, Bardsley, Biddle, Black, J. S., Brodhead, Brown, Campbell, Cassidy, Church, Cronmiller, Cuyler, Dodd, Ewing, Fell, Finney, Gowen, Green, Hazzard, Hemphill, Howard, Kaine, Knight, Lamberton, Lear, Littleton, Long, MacVeagh, M'Camant, M'Murray, Mantor, Mott, Palmer, H.W., Parsons, Patterson, T. H. B., Purman, Read, John R., Rooke, Runk, Sharpe, Simpson, Smith, H. G., Smith, Wm. H., Stanton, Stewart, Struthers, Walker and Wood

ward-51.

FILLING OF MR. M'ALLISTER'S SEAT. Mr. LAWRENCE. The delegates at large on whom devolved the duty of supplying the vacancy occasioned by the death of the late Hugh N. M'Allister, beg leave to make the following report:

Resolved, That hereafter, and until otherwise ordered, the Convention will hold one session each Saturday, commencing at ten o'clock A. M., and ending at two o'clock P. M.

The resolution was twice read.

On the question of agreeing to the resolution, the yeas and nays were required by Mr. Corbett and Mr. Hanna, and were as follow, viz:

YEAS.

Messrs. Achenbach, Baily, (Perry,) Bailey, (Huntingdon,) Beebe, Bow

man, Boyd,

a majority of the same voters who voted for and elected the late Hugh N. M'Allister, Esq, do hereby fill the vacancy occasioned by his death, by the appointment of Samuel Calvin, Esq., a citizen of Blair county, to be a member of this Convention.

WM. M. MEREDITH.
WM. LILLY,

LIN BARTHOLOMEW,
WM. DAVIS,

JAS. L. REYNOLDS,

GEO. V. LAWRENCE,

WM. H. ARMSTRONG,
D. N. WHITE,
WM. H. AINEY,
JNO. H. WALKER.

PHILADELPHIA, May 13, 1873.

The PRESIDENT. The report will be

ACCOUNTS FOR PRINTING.

39.

NAYS.

Messrs. Alricks, Baer, Baker, Barclay, Bartholomew, Bigler, Black, Charles A., Broomall, Buckalew, Clark, Cochran, Corson, Curry, Curtin, Dallas, Davis, Dunning, Ellis, Funck, Gibson, Gilpin, Hanna, Harvey, Heverin, Hunsicker, Landis, Lilly, M'Clean, Minor, Newlin, Palmer, G. W., Patterson, D. W., Reed, Andrew, Ross, Smith, Henry W., Temple, Van Reed, Wetherill, J. M., White, Harry, White, J. W. F., Worrell and Meredith, President-42.

So the resolution was rejected. 26-Vol. IV.

the report of the Committee on Accounts and Expenditures of the Convention presented on last Friday, which has been printed and laid on the desks of members. I move that the House proceed to the further consideration of the report.

The motion was agreed to, and the first resolution reported by the Committee on accounts was read the second time as follows:

Resolved, That no warrants be drawn for payments to the Printer of the Com tion.

Mr. HAY. Mr. Pre shall have final ac

now. The Commit.

Expenditures have no desire whatever to press any particular course of action upon the Convention. The members of that committee are interested only as all other members of the Convention are interested to secure a right settlement. This matter came properly before them when considering the propriety of reporting a resolution directing that further warrants be drawn in favor of the Printer for this Convention. The committee deemed it their duty to examine the acts of Assembly which are cited in the report, and they have reported the construction which in their opinion those laws bear. If the Convention should differ in opinion with the committee as to the right construction of these laws, the committee will of course conform their action to the directions of the Convention on the subject. I do not intend to make any argument now to sustain the report, but it is very necessary that the committee should have instructions from the Convention by which they may be able to guide their action intelligently in the future.

There is one matter, however, which it is proper now to bring to the notice of the Convention which may affect their judgment upon the question before us; and that is, the practical impossibility of the final settlement of the accounts for the printing and binding of this Convention by the Convention or by any of its committees. The printing cannot be finished, and the binding certainly will not be done; very few of the printed and bound volumes of the Debates and Journals will be delivered by the time this Convention adjourns sine die; and as a matter of course no final settlement of the accounts for the same can be made by any committee of this body, nor a final payment made to the Printer of the Convention. Why then should the Convention take into its hands the settlement of these accounts at all? It cannot effect a final settlement. It can only make partial payments on account, and final settlement will, of necessity, have to be made by the officers who have the adjustment and settlement of the other accounts of the Commonwealth. There will be nobody in existence after this Convention adjourns that will be competent to make a settlement except the Legislature or the Auditor General of the State. I ask the members to take that fact into consideration in determining this question, because the utmost that can possibly be done by this

Mr. BOYD. Do I understand the committee to report that as the law now stands the Auditor General of the Commonwealth should settle with the Printer.

Mr. HAY. The committee report that in their opinion, as the laws now stand, by which the Convention has heretofore guided its action in the settlements of its accounts, the Auditor General is the official now authorized by law to make a settlement of the accounts for the printing and binding of this Convention. I regret that laws have been passed to effect this result, but in my opinion such laws do exist. My own opinion has been strengthened, not only by that of some of the most distinguished lawyers in this body, but also by the concurrence of my coleagues on the Committee on Accounts, two of whom are the only members of this body who have filled the position of Auditor General of the Commonwealth, and who are familiar with the laws regulating that officer, and are men of eminent legal attainments and ability.

Mr. BUCKALEW. I am very clear in opinion that the act of 1872 was not changed by the supplement of 1873 as to the drawing of warrants by our presiding officer, countersigned by the clerk, for all expenses of the Convention. I have looked over and compared these statutes carefully, and that is my judgment. The act of 1872 covered everything, the language being, "warrants for compensation of members and officers, and for all proper expenses of the Convention, shall be drawn by the President and countersigned by the Chief Clerk, upon the State Treasurer for payment."

I do not understand that that provision of the act of 1872 was repealed by the act of 1873; and that conclusion seems to me to be irresistible when we consider that the main object of the act of 1873 was to repeal the act of 1872 as to the salaries of the members of the Convention. The salaries were fixed by the former statute at $1,000 for each member, It was the intention by the later act to repeal that, and hence this repealing clause which we find in the lacer statute; but as to the manner in which payments should be made, it seems to me the act of 1872 is left entirely untouched. The act of 1873 reads:

"For the pay of the expenses of the Constitutional Convention, including the pay of the members, clerks and officers thereof, and the printing therefor, the sum of $500,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be settled by the Auditor Generel."

The Auditor General is not to settle the printing account merely; he is to settle all the accounts; he is to settle the accounts for the salary of members, he is to settle the accounts for the pay of our officers, and all our incidental outlays, just as much and just as far as he is to settle the printing account. It is a general provision, applying to all our outlays of every description. But here follows the clause which seems to have misled the committee, which I will read: "And the amounts of the salaries of the members and clerks, and the pay of the officers and employees thereof, shall be fixed by the said Constitutional Convention, and the money shall be paid by the State Treasurer," &c., repeating the provision of the former statute; that is, when they provide that the pay shall be fixed by the Convention itself, they simply repeat the provision of the former law, that warrants shall be drawn by the presiding officer and Chief Clerk for the amount of pay so fixed; but of course that has no relation to the general provision of the former statuto with regard to other outlays of the Convention. That remains untouched.

By this construction both laws are left in full force as to all their provisions except in two particulars. The act of 1873 provides that the Convention itself shall fix the compensation of its members, and also that the Auditor General shall settle, not the printing account, but all the outlays and expenditures of this Convention. It seems to me, therefore, that not one dollar can be paid by the State Treasurer under either of these statutes, except upon the warrant of the presiding officer of this body.

Mr. HAY. I wish to ask the gentleman from Columbia whether the accounts of this Convention must be settled by the Auditor General before a warrant can be drawn?

Mr. BUCKALEW. The manner of executing the power is a distinct question. I am speaking now upon the question of power. I think that not one dollar can be lawfully paid by the State Treasurer except upon a warrant properly countersigned for any outlay of this Convention; and it follows that to authorize a warrant

to be drawn there must be an ascertainment of the amount due, so that virtually a supervision of every outlay of the Convention is charged upon it and must be had.

Now, sir, my idea is that either of two modes may be adopted. Our Committee on Accounts and Expenditures may ascertain what is due an officer or an employee

and the Printer is merely an employeeor what is due to the members themselves, and upon that ascertainment the Auditor General can enter upon his books, as in other cases, the proper amounts due, and upon a certificate that a settlement has been made the President will draw his warrant accordingly.

Mr. HAY. I desire to ask the gentleman from Columbia this question, how it will be possible for a committee of this body, after the adjournment of this body, when a final settlement is to be made, to affect any settlement with anybody? Will not all the authority of this body and its committees be gone and the authority of the President to draw warrants be gone on its final adjournment?

Mr. BUCKALEW. That difficulty which the gentleman regards as a great one, I think is a very small one. All the casual printing of the Convention, I mean our files, reports, and other matters of the same sort, will be complete before we adjourn; the account can be settled before we adjourn. There is nothing I know of that will remain after that except a little printing of the last volume of the Debates and the Journal, and the Convention can make provision for the settlement of that by the Committee on Accounts after the adjournment and authorize the President, upon the report of the committee made to him, to draw a warrant. What the Convention does through a committee or its presiding officer upon due resolution is done by itself. It does not wholly cease to exist if it chooses to continue for certain purposes its powers and the authority of its officers. You can pass an ordinance authorizing a committee of this Convention or the President to perform any necessary duty for six months after we adjourn.

I only desire to add that in my view of the law we must ourselves authorize the drawing of the warrants for every dollar of expenditure, and I shall vote against the resolution.

Mr. J. N. PURVIANCE. Mr. President: Under the act of 1811 full power is conferred on the Auditor General to settle

all the public accounts, and under it he exercises that power in all cases except where the Legislature takes it from him, and in many instances, by act of Assembly passed, the accounting department has no jurisdiction whatever over the settlement of certain specified public accounts. The act of 1872, in reference to the expenses of this Convention, declares that warrants for the compensation of members and officers, and for all proper expenses of the Convention, shall be drawn by the President and countersigned by the Chief Clerk, on the State Treasury for payment. Now, I take it that when the warrant is drawn by the President and countersigned by the Chief Clerk, the Treasurer is bound on that warrant to pay the money, and that it is a proper and legal voucher to him in the settlement of his accounts, and that the Auditor General has no power or control over it. It is a settled and fixed matter by the Convention. That act, however, was repealed by the act of 1873 in part. The act of 1873 provides:

"For the pay of the expenses of the Constitutional Convention, including the pay of the members, clerks and officers thereof, and the printing therefor, the sum of $500,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be settled by the Auditor General; and the amount of the salaries of the members and clerks, and the pay of the officers and employees thereof, shall be fixed by the said Constitutional Convention."

Now, I take it that when the Convention fixes the salary of members and the pay of the clerks and employees of the Convention, there its power ceases, and when the President has signed the warrants and they are countersigned by the Chief Clerk for the account so settled, that is conclusive; there is no supervisory power over it by the Auditor General. But then this section provides further: "and the printing therefor the sum of $500,000, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be settled by the Auditor General." What is it that the Auditor General has to settle? It is the printing or else it is nothing at all. It is evident that there is no other act that the Auditor General has to do, except settle for the printing, because so far as all other expenses of this Convention are concerned they are to be fixed and settled by the Convention itself, and payment thereof is to be made by the State Treasurer upon the warrant of the President of the Con

vention, countersigned by the Chief Clerk. Those warrants when issued and paid by the State Treasurer are conclusive; there is no power on earth to supervise them, or to gainsay them, or to modify or correct them. That is settled.

Then, as the section provides that the Auditor General shall settle something, what is it that he is to settle? Nothing is left open except the printing. The paper may be settled for by this Convention, and the expense of the Debates, because that is not included; but the expenses of the printing are clearly left as an item to e settled by the Auditor General, and no other item whatever of our expenses is to be so settled.

These are my views in brief, and the opinion of the committee unanimously, after consideration and mature deliberation upon the whole subject.

Mr. HARRY WHITE. Mr. President: I merely desire to add a word in confirmation of what was said so properly by the delegate from Columbia (Mr. Buckalew.) I may remark that I entirely concur with his general view, if I understood him correctly, that it was not the intention of the Legislature at all to take the settlement of our accounts out of the hands of our proper committee; and I confess, with all due deference to others who have had experience in the administration of the government, that I am puzzied to know how a difference of opinion can arise upon this subject. No difference of opinion can exist under the sev enth section of our organic act. Under that act we had full and ample power in the premises to settle all our accounts and the manner of the payment was provided for. Upon that there is no question. The doubt arises upon the proper construction of a clause in the appropriation bill of the present year. Let me call the attention of the delegates to that clause. It says:

"For the payment of the expenses of the Constitutional Convention, including the pay of the members, clerks and officers thereof, and the printing therefor, the sum of five hundred thousand dollars, or so much thereof as may be necessary, to be paid by the Auditor General.”

This is the ordinary phrase to be found in all appropriation bills. What does it mean in connection with the other clause, the latter sentence of this paragraph in the act of 1873?

The latter sentence provides: "And the amount of the salaries of the members and clerks, and the pay of the officers and em