MAY 20, 1834.]

Columbia (Pa.) Proceedings.

[SENATE.

and whatever others have hoped, eight months' expe- constitutional: Second, that a national bank, iñorthy gen rience has settled the question. Yes, sir, I believe that ent state of things, is indispensable. This may appated friends as well as focs now see that the attempt to sustain inconsistent with what has taken place, but I fully believe the currency and maintain commercial credit, by the aid it is all true. This paradox, if it appear to be one, is of State banks, has hopelessly failed. With all the aid of easily explained by considering the circumstances which Government, with all that party zeal could do for them, may, and which do, control men's opinions. One questhese banks have not been able to relieve the commu- tion gets mixed with another; opinions give way to nonity; they have not been able to restore confidence. tions of present expediency; and the consequences of Confidence is a thing not to be produced by compul- appearing to give way and abandon a favorite course of sion. Men cannot be forced into trust. Good credit, policy, are more feared than all other consequences. Sir, within local limits, these banks, or some of them, pos- if the Executive would but signify his assent to such a sessed; but there it naturally stopped, and cannot be proceeding, we should re-charter the Bank of the United forced further. States, at least for a short time, restore the deposites, and go home to the people in three weeks.

As far as I understand, at least in this part of the country, the usual occurrences are these: If a man has the We hear, sometimes, intimations thrown out, that the notes of State banks to any amount, he goes to the bank administration may itself yet propose a bank; some sort and gets specie for them. Having obtained his specie, of a bank; a bank, not on the usual principles, but on he very often goes to the Bank of the United States and some new principles. "New principles," it is frequently exchanges it for bills. The returns made to Congress said, are to be applied to the case. I am not aware, sir, from these deposite banks, and all our information, of from my own reading or observation, that any new prinficial and unofficial, clearly show that they are not com- ciples in banking have been discovered, at home or petent to relieve the country. The experiment, I re- abroad, for the last quarter or half a century, unless it peat, sir, has already failed. Men feel that it has fail- be that certain notions which have been suggested among ed. The friends of the administration feel that it has us, sometime since, and recently, but never adopted, failed. I speak confidently, and am willing it should may be called new principles. I will advert to some of be remembered that I have so spoken; and I say that them. at this very hour, in my opinion, the conviction is gen. One is, that we may create a bank, with a large capital, eral, that the measures adopted by Government have not and establish it in this District; not for the convenience produced, and cannot produce, the expected beneficial of the people here, but for the benefit of the whole Unieffect. ted States. Now, sir, he must have singular ideas of conAs to what is before us, sir, my opinion is, we are to titutional law, who denies that Congress can make a bank look forward to a summer and autumn of very great diffi- at Philadelphia, with branches in other States, and yet culty. There may be occasional and temporary relaxa- contends that it may establish a bank here, which may tions of suffering, but there can be no permanent relief. send its branches into all the States. And as to a bank Men of capital will be alarmed; active men of business with a large capital here, where there is so little comwill be timid; those who have any thing will rather seek merce, with no branches in the large cities, where comto secure it, than to hazard it in the attempt to make merce does exist, the notion is too preposterous to need more. Employment will be scarce, wages low, and, refutation. This "new principle" then, sir, be assured, above all, or rather, perhaps, as the cause of all, a want will not be carried into operation.

of confidence, an uncertainty about the future, a distrust There is another "new principle," and that is, to estabin the currency, and a distrust in Government, will con-lish a bank on the funds in the Treasury. It is hardly tinue to paralyze the whole community. necessary to say, that the time for this, if there ever was a time favorable to so crude and so dangerous a project, has quite gone by.

If we break up here, having done nothing, we shall go home to meet nothing but complaints and trouble. Can any of these advocates of "experiments" tell me how We have had, too, sir, at different periods in our histothe condition of the country is to be changed for the bet- ry, suggestions favorable to the exemption of banks from ter, before the next meeting of Congress? How is busi- liability to pay their notes in specie; in other words, faness to revive? How is occupation for the laboring class-vorable to a sheer, confessed paper-money system. These es to be obtained? How is commerce to be extended? suggestions, it may be, have become part of the "new How is internal trade, especially, to regain its facilities principles" which it is intended shortly to exemplify. and advantages? How are exchanges to be re-establish- The country, I trust, will not run into any such folly. ed? And what is to become of the revenue? Will gen- Again, I have heard it said, that although there may be tlemen longer sleep over this last subject? Do they now a bank hereafter, yet it must be a bank, in which the not see, that the Secretary's estimates cannot be realized? Government, that is the Executive, shall have direct parSir, the honorable member from Kentucky has called for ticipation and control. I need hardly say, that, for one, an account of the receipts at the Treasury for the year, I shall not consent to any such project for extending exthus far. When those accounts come, they will open ecutive influence. I shall not agree to make a very bad gentlemen's eyes; they will show sad disappointment. Ibank, for the sake of making a very dangerous Governcannot speak with precision, as to the extent of defalca- ment. In that, sir, I reject and repudiate all these new tion, but I do not speak altogether at random, when I principles. I shall set my face against all banks but a give my opinion on this subject. From the best lights I specie-paying bank, a hard-money bank, a well-regulated can obtain, there will be a deficiency, in the receipts of and well-constituted bank, established on principles safe the customs, of at least one-third the whole expected to the Government and safe to the people. If we cannot amount-perhaps nearer to a moiety than to a third. have such a bank, the next best thing will be to have Such is the direct effect of the experiment upon the finances of the country. Having, sir, expressed these opinions, there are others, also, which I think it right to

state.

With all respect, sir, to both Houses of Congress, and notwithstanding all that we hear, in one or the other, against the power to create a bank, I am fully of opinion, nevertheless, that two-thirds of each House are convinced of these two propositions: First, that a national bank is

none. Gentlemen may set their hearts at rest, sir, about all these new projects. The country is too wise, it has already had too much taste of experiments, to countenance any one of them. If there be not a sound bank, a safe bank, a bank independent of Executive control, there will, for the present at least, be no bank at all.

I have only a few words more to say, sir. We are already far advanced in the session. The heats of summer are approaching, and what is so be done? Is the adminis

Wake County (N. C.) Proceedings.-Raleigh (N. C.) Memorial.

[MAY 20, 1834.

prepared to see the session break up, and mem-and that the bank had no more right to complain of a ers go home, leaving these things as they are? Is such violation of faith, than when money was demanded of and the intention of the Executive? Is such the intention of paid by a debtor. It was stated in the bond, that the members who support the Executive? I still remain of Secretary of the Treasury, as the agent of the Governthe opinion formerly expressed, that it is our absolute ment, should, when he thought proper, remove the deduty to adopt some measure of relief, before we leave our posites. Mr. B., therefore, could see no violation of the seats. But the responsibility is not on us. The Senate faith. But there was one act on the part of the Bank of can do nothing. We are not responsible, either for the the United States which should stop those who espoused present, or for future difficulties. her cause; the bank, on full deliberation, after an examiWe have not brought about this state of things;we have nation of the whole cause, had yielded up the deposites; not removed the deposites; we have not broken the they were, therefore, estopped by their own act from sayplighted faith of the Government; we have not deranged ing any thing about a violation of faith. But, Mr. B. the currency; we have not shaken credit and confidence; thought that if the bank believed that the law required we have not brought on failures, bankruptcies, and ruin; them to keep the deposites, they had themselves commitwe have not obstructed trade; we have not checked man-ted a breach of trust, by yielding them up to what they ufactures; we have not starved labor; we have not im- supposed an unlawful demand, and if the Secretary had poverished the Treasury. It is for those who have chan- no legal power to remove the deposites, the bank was ged the state of things-it is for those whose political acts bound to disobey him. The bank, having the full advanhave placed the country in the condition it now is in-to tage of the ablest legal counsel, and having withheld the take and to bear the responsibility. When we foretold pension-fund, could not, in Mr. B.'s opinion, believe that this, we were derided as prophets false, or prophets igno- the removal of the deposites was illegal. It also appearrant; complaints of distress have heretofore only produ-ed to him, that those who considered the removal a violaced sneers, sarcasms, and attempts, poor attempts indeed, tion of the national faith, so far from fixing the charge at ridicule. But the evil has come in a shape too formi-on the Executive of having usurped illegal and unconsti dable to be disregarded. Here it is, and how do its au-tutional powers, were themselves the advocates of a usurthors intend to deal with it? Sir, I am as anxious as any pation of power, in claiming for the bank unlimited conmember can be to go home. I stay here at great incon- trol over the revenue of the United States; for if the venience and sacrifice; but I am willing to stay until the Secretary had not power to remove the money, Congress last hope of doing any thing useful has faded away. I had not; and if they had done it, the bank would then will stay till the dog-days come, if it promise the benefit. have complained of a breach of faith. We had heard If the administration has any thing to propose, I will stay much about distress for the last five months, and on the and hear it. If it meditates any measure of relief, I am one hand, the sordid avarice of the American people had willing to wait the result of its meditation. I hope, there- been appealed to; and on the other, their fears. If genfore, gentlemen will tell us, I call on them to tell us, tlemen really believed in the existence of distress, it was whether the Executive has any thing further to propose. surprising that they had not proposed a remedy, or had Does it desire the prolongation of the session? Has it any not followed it up more closely. Mr. B. considered them thing or does it expect to have any thing to submit to us? political doctors, who debated in eloquent language on The friends of the Executive have the power. They the nature and danger of the disease, but could bring no have, too, the responsibility. They reject every thing remedy. The honorable gentleman from Massachusetts which we think useful; and they propose no change from had said that he had not moved the bill to re-charter the our present condition. They can relieve the country at bank, on the ground that the other branch of Congress once, if they choose. If they will but sacrifice their own would probably not co-operate; and then again he had prejudices, their stiff adherence to their own opinions no doubt that two-thirds of both Houses now believed in and purposes, on the altar of the public good, they could the constitutionality and necessity of a bank. If such relieve the country in three weeks. It is for them to de- were the fact, the Senator might press forward his procide whether this sacrifice shall be made. And I now re-posed remedy; but Mr. B. did not believe it; he thought peat, sir, and it is the last remark with which I shall the conduct of the bank, for the last six months, had trouble you, that unless some efficient measure be adopt- greatly diminished its popularity. ed before we separate, we have a summer and fall before The Senator had said that a re-charter of the bank us, such as this country has not experienced. would afford immediate relief. Mr. B. needed no other The memorial was referred, and ordered to be printed. argument to condemn the bank, than the existence of a power in this institution to blight the hopes of the farmer WAKE COUNTY (N. C.) PROCEEDINGS. and planter, to bring distress and ruin on the American Mr. BROWN would take this opportunity to present people, and to cap the climax, to reduce and destroy the the resolutions and proceedings of a public meeting held revenue. Mr. B. did not believe in the extent of the in the county of Wake, North Carolina. Mr. B. said he power ascribed to it; but if it really possessed such powwas perfectly acquainted with the chairman of the meet-er, it was a conclusive argument against it. The large ing, and several of the other gentlemen; they were of majority of those whom Mr. B. represented, were oppothe first respectability. The chairman had been identifi-sed to giving to any institution, the power to say what ed with all the great struggles of the republican party, their produce should bring in the market, and to control and on all occasions had been distinguished for his devo- the price of their cotton and tobacco. tion to that party. Among the resolutions adopted at the Mr. MANGUM stated that he understood that this memeeting, was one approving the removal of the deposites morial was got up by a meeting of eighteen gentlemen, by the Secretary of the Treasury, as a measure judicious of the county of Wake, where the question was agitated and indispensable, for the purpose of winding up the by a gentleman of considerable talent, who had concenaffairs of the bank, and to prevent the bank from using trated in his speeches all that could be collected from the the deposites in the way of forcing its re-charter. In this, debates in Congress for the last three or four years, and Mr. B. concurred; and he had heard it said, by an hon- all the precieux morceaux with which he was furnished by orable gentleman on this floor this morning, that by the the official organ of this city. removal of the deposites the national faith had been vioRALEIGH (N. C.) MEMORIAL. lated. Mr. B. had not been able to bring his mind to that conclusion, but on the contrary, he believed there was Mr. MANGUM presented a memorial from a number complete power in the Secretary to remove the deposites, of inhabitants of Raleigh, in North Carolina, remonstra

MAY 20, 1834.]

Wake County (N. C.) Proceedings.—Raleigh (N. C. ) Memorial.

ting against the removal of the deposites, and praying for An appeal had been made to Virginia: a very worthy gen the re-charter of the bank, or the adoption of such meas- tleman, [Mr. RIVES,] not now upon this floor, had vacated ures as might relieve the public distress, and restore a his seat in compliance with the instruction of the Legislasound currency. The memorial was, he said, signed by ture of that State, but with the confident expression of more than four-fifths of the voters in the town. He had his opinion that an appeal to the people would alter the no idea that the question would be settled till public opin- state of affairs. Well, all looked to Virginia-the appeal ion from without should settle it-until the fact should was made, tried, and decided, but decided in a different be ascertained, that out of a body of four thousand, not way from that which was expected by the gentleman to more than forty would be found in favor of the removal whom he (Mr. W.) had alluded. The appeal was now of the deposites. He would always be opposed to any going over Virginia into North Carolina, and would set institution which should have the power of controlling the all right. But it had been said that Virginia had inglori prices of cotton and tobacco. The question was now ously deserted her ancient standard-the standard of rewearing out; the last hope of the party was breaking up; publicanism. Virginia needed no defence in this particthe party was breaking up; and so far from the action of ular, or she would instantly receive it at abler hands than the last six months contributing to render the institution his, (Mr. W.'s.) But what had she done? She had reunpopular, it was now more popular than it ever was. sisted Executive power, she had sought to keep the reveHe met with no man of intelligence from the South, who nue of the country under the control of the Legislature. did not say that there was a necessity for an establish- Had she in this transgressed any article in the catechism ment which should regulate the currency. In the South, of liberty, or departed from the principles of republicanwhatever quackery might be played off, the blow would ism? She had kept a watchful eye upon, and sought to be felt less severely than in any other part of the commu- restrict the power of patronage—was that inconsistent nity. The country had enjoyed a wholesome currency, with republicanism and liberty? But the honorable Senand prospered under it; and, in the opinion of all sensi-lator had given the Senate a new argument upon the subble men, the United States Bank was sufficient to restore ject of the deposites. He said that the bank had itself it. The people around us, said Mr. M., are rising en declared the removal of the public money to be a legal masse: and I do think, that in Virginia and North Caroli-procedure, because she had given up the money-that na, the people begin to feel a deep conviction that some-she would not have given up the money if not legally dething is to be done. Government has done more to es manded. If, Mr. W. said, they had this argument at the tablish the bank than all its friends could have done. commencement of the session, there was no saying what Mr. BROWN had not intended to say any thing on the impression it might have made upon the Senate; as howpresent subject. How often had he heard it said by the ever it had been so long coming from one man's mind, the advocates of the bank, that the prices of produce had he feared it would be as long sinking into the minds been reduced by the last action. He must be allowed to of others. dissent from the opinion of his colleague. If the bank The case was simply this: the law gave the Secretary should be allowed to establish itself, he should despair of power to remove the money, imposing upon him at the the liberties of the country. He must say that the com- same time the duty of exercising his own judgment as to monwealth of North Carolina would pursue "the even the justice of the act: the Secretary disregarding his tenor of her way," and uphold the standard of repub-own judgment, or having none of his own, but acting, licanism notwithstanding that it might be ingloriously de- as he had himself allowed, upon the President's judgment serted elsewhere-even by Virginia. The State of North and order, without any just cause of complaint against Carolina looked to no political examples; she acted and the bank, did remove the money. The order came, thought for herself. If the ancient commonwealth of and the bank gave up the deposites. Again, the gentleVirginia thought proper to desert the man who has done man asked why, if the opinions of a majority of the memmore for State rights than any other individual; who had bers of both Houses were in favor of a bank, some propstruck at the internal improvement, as it was confessed he osition to that effect was not brought forward? It was a had done; who had struck at the tariff, as was also ac-poor consolation, he said, to tell the patient that he was knowledged-be it so: he (Mr. B.) trusted North Caro-ill, without proposing a remedy.

lina would act otherwise. As regarded the expediency We, said Mr. W., are not doctors: there is but one of chartering a national bank, he must say that our people gentleman of the medical profession among us, and he is were not a people who would surrender constitutional-not now in his seat. We have not been consulted; we have ity to expediency. They did not value the constitution by had nothing to do in the matter: But how is it with him, dollars and cents. No! they saw in this institution (the who, finding the patient well, exercises upon him, ruins bank) an attack upon the constitution of the United States; his health, makes experiments upon him, and endangers then came the American system, which was another attack. his constitution. He (Mr. W.) repeated, that he believed He had no doubt they were indebted to the bank for the there was a majority in both Houses in favor of a nationexertions which had been made to introduce and perpetual bank. Then why, said the Senator from North Caroate the American system; and he appealed to State lina, is a national bank not established? Simply, said Mr. rights men, how they could give their support to an in- W., because it is not the policy of this administration to stitution which had acted in this manner? have such a bank. There were many, who in their exerMr. WEBSTER said that he was glad to find that the cises were against the present experiment, but who neverhonorable Senator from North Carolina [Mr. BROWN]theless thought the experiment must go on, only because was so well sustained by his State; for although it could the man who fixed the policy of this Government, and not be affirmed, that the honorable Senator went 66 mag- "whose determination nothing could alter," had so na commitante caterve," neither could it be said that a gen-willed it.

tleman was without all good company who had with him There was another new view of the Senator from eighteen or twenty respectable associates; the number, North Carolina. The bank was now charged with a kind however, was hardly sufficient to uphold that standard of guilt which he (Mr. W.) had never before heard aswhich the honorable Senator seemed to think Virginia bad ingloriously deserted.

Mr. BROWN denied that he had spoken thus with regard to Virginia.

Mr. WEBSTER quoted the precise words used by the honorable Senator from North Carolina, and continued:

cribed to that institution. The honorable Senator had now discovered, that the bank was the cause of the loss of commerce and the revenue of the country. Here was a useful agent, upon which the Executive had made an attack, and thus produced much suffering in the commuInity, (more than had been inflicted upon the bank itself;)

Raleigh (N. C.) Memorial.-Cherokee Memorial.

[MAY 20, 1834.

But the argument that the bank was estopped by yielding the deposites was not new with Mr. B., he had heard it before, and it had not been answered.

The Senator had noticed the appeal to the State of Virginia. Mr. B. thought certain politicians of the old Virginia school would consider it rather doubtful evidence of their orthodoxy, that they found an advocate in the gentleman from Massachusetts.

The memorials were now referred, and ordered to be printed. CHEROKEE MEMORIAL.

and now this useful agent was blamed for the consequences resulting from the injury which had been inflicted upon it, and the Senate was told that it ought to be destroyed, because an attack made upon it produced distress and derangement of the concerns of the country. What, continued Mr. W., had the bank done? It stood still-said little, and did nothing! It charter was about to expire, and it consequently called in its debts-slowly, much too slowly, in his opinion, for its own good and the ultimate interest of the people. This was a second edition of the old fable of the Wolf and the Lamb. The lamb was not born at the time the alleged offence was committed Mr. CLAYTON presented a memorial of the Cherokee against the wolf; no matter, it was some of the lamb's an-nation, signed by their principal chief and other delecestors; so the wolf sprang upon his victim and devoured gates, complaining that, notwithstanding the faith of treaties, the obligations of the laws, and the solemn decision You might just as well say, continued Mr. W., that inas- of the Supreme Court of the United States in their fa much as ships are essential to the commerce of the vor, the President of the United States has not only reUnited States, we should therefore destroy the ships; fused to protect them against the oppressions of the State there was nothing capable of exerting so much control of Georgia, but is exerting his power on the side of their over the revenue. The merchants too, had the power of oppressors, and co-operating with them in the work of controlling the revenue-they could increase or reduce destruction. They represent that, under these laws and it; and they, therefore, ought to be hung up under the treaties, in times past, they were protected by the Ex. second section, if it was inconsistent with freedom that ecutive power of the United States; that, happy under these men should have so much control. This was the the parental guardianship of this Government, they apargument, that whatever was essential to the country,plied themselves assiduously and successfully to learn the was obnoxious, because of its power. lessons of civilization and peace which, in the prosecu

him.

Mr. W. was not about to discuss the merits or demerits tion of a humane and Christian policy, the United States of the bank; but he would say, Let it be tried-let an in- | caused to be taught to them; that while protection was vestigation be made-there was a jury, let them be e-extended to them against cupidity, they could, with pride pannelled before the tribunals-there was law, let the and satisfaction, and with grateful hearts to their instructbank be tried. But Mr. W. agreed entirely with the ers, point us to the houses they had built, the improveother Senator from North Carolina [Mr. MANGUM] that so ments they had made, the fields they were cultivating, far from recent transactions and circumstances in the and show, by their domestic establishments, how, from country having been unfavorable to the bank, their ten-wandering in the forests, many of them had become the dency had been all the other way; and he thought the heads of families, with fixed habitations, each the centre people now felt sorely that the twenty-four States could of a domestic circle, like that which forms the happiness not regulate the currency of the country, that they could of civilized man. They say that human knowledge and not manage the internal trade or the business of ex-letters had been introduced amongst them, and that the changes. In one of the denunciations which had been highest of all knowledge had come to bless them, teachmade against various classes of people, the brokers had ing them to know and to worship the Christian's God, been placed foremost; and yet the kingdom of brokers bowing down to him at the same seasons, and in the same had come upon us; it had been spoken into being by the spirit, with the millions of his creatures who inhabit erroneous rates of exchange. Compare the state of Christendom, and with them embracing the hopes and things now, with what it was in October last, and see the promises of the Gospel. But now they represent that result. Could a man now cross a State line with the money each of these blessings has been made to them an instru of another State? Could he get it exchanged without an ment of the keenest torture; that cupidity has fastened enormous premium? It could be done nowhere. There its eye upon their lands and their homes, and is seeking, was no common medium, and specie, the hard money by force and by every variety of oppression and wrong, used to supply its place, made its progress, first from to expel them from their firesides, and to tear them from Philadelphia to Baltimore and then to Washington; and all that has become endeared to them. They say, that, then it was bid to march back again to Baltimore and to give a detail of their sufferings, would make a history. Philadelphia; it went from deposite bank to deposite The memorial further complains, that the annuities bank, at whose cost we did not know now, though Mr. secured by treaty for the Cherokees, has been virtually W. hoped we should know hereafter. The derange- withheld, in consequence of the Executive construction of ment in the exchanges, and the high premium, was a the laws, and it asks of Congress redress for this griev matter felt by every man, in the enormous diminution of ance, by directing that those annuities shall be paid ac the profits of his industry. That alone was enough to cording to the provisions of the treaty and the expressed produce the conviction than an institution to regulate the wishes of the Cherokee people. On this subject, said currency of the country was indispensable. Mr. C., I forbear all comment at this time. My business Mr. BROWN said, the Senator [Mr. WEBSTER] had with it now is to cause the proper disposition to be made commenced his remarks by saying that there were not of the paper. more than eighteen or twenty at the meeting to support ments, showing the whole correspondence of these deleIt is accompanied by numerous docuthe standard of the administration in North Carolina. Mr.gates of this dependent people, now seeking our protecB. knew the chairman of the meeting was excelled by notion, with the Chief Executive and the Department of one in veracity, and yet he had said that the meeting was | War. I move that it be printed, and referred to the Comlarge and respectable, which Mr. B. thought better evi-mittee on Indian Affairs. dence than the conjecture of his colleague.

The Senator had also said, that one of Mr. B.'s arguments had at least the merit of novelty; but Mr. B. had heard no new arguments from him (Mr. W.) They had all been often repeated here, and had met their refutation. But then the bank had the miraculous power of conferring high intellect on all who espoused its cause.

without consideration. These people made complaints Mr. FORSYTH hoped the reference would not take place against the President of the United States and other portions of the Government. They represented themselves as an independent Government; and measures for redress, in such cases, ought to originate with ourselves, and not with those foreigners. He would like to know what au

MAY 20, 1834.]

Cherokee Memorial.

[SENATE.

thority the honorable Senator from Delaware had for rep- these Indians were to be disregarded, he (Mr. B.) thought resenting these people as an independent nation? that the Senate could not possibly refuse to receive the Mr. CLAYTON said, the paper had been handed to petition. [Mr. B. here read an extract from one of the him by a person in whom he had all confidence, and who treaties, showing that the Indians had placed themselves had so represented them. They represented themselves under the protection of the Government, and that the as people under the protection of the United States, and Government had agreed to extend protection to them.] they had not been protected; and they asked protection. Now, without going into a discussion as to the real charThe subject of their annuity being withheld was a proper acter of these people, he should vote for the reception of subject for legislation; and if the people had been injur- the petition, on the ground that the Government of the ed, they could only look to the Congress of the United United States had taken the petitioners under its protection. He felt as much bound to receive the remonstran

States.

Mr. FORSYTH objected, on the ground that the peo-ces and complaints of these Indians, as he did to receive ple represented themselves in a character in which they those of any number of the citizens of the United States. ought not to be seen. The memorial came, he supposed, Mr. B. said, he went on the ground that Congress should from John Ross; and he wanted to know how any one hear their complaints, and do them justice; and if the representing himself as the head of any people on the Cherokees thought injustice had been done them, Conglobe, could make a complaint against the Government gress was bound, at least, to hear their complaints. of the United States, through the Senate. Suppose Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN said, there was one view of some petty chief of Spanish America, or of Europe, the subject, on which he thought it would be the pleaswere to present such a paper; there would be but one ure of the Senate to receive this petition. By a treaty sentiment-indignation, felt at his impudent audacity. with the Cherokees, the United States had bound themAnd here was the head of the Cherokee tribe come to selves to pay them an annuity of 6,000 dollars. At the beard the Government. If they had represented them-suggestion of the President, the annuity, which had hereselves as subjects they would be heard; but thus repre- tofore been paid to the chiefs of the nation, for them to sented, the Senate could not receive their memorial.

Mr. FORSYTH then called for the ayes and noes on the question.

distribute as they might think best, had been paid in a different manner. About five years ago this change had been made, and the War Department had ordered the Mr. CLAY said, the question was as to whether the annuity to be distributed among the individuals of the namemorial should be received. By the constitution of the tion, and from the altered state of the people it had been United States, the intercourse with the Indian tribes was impossible thus to carry the benefit to the whole nation. confided to Congress; by treaties with those tribes annui- They now asked the interposition of Congress, to alter ties were agreed to be paid them, and appropriations had this mode; but this called for the agitation of no inflambeen made for that purpose. Congress had the control matory question; they thought it better to pay the chiefs then of this money, and had a right to see that it was of the nation, than insulated individuals. Mr. F. rememcorrectly paid. Well, these Indians came here and said bered that an amendment of this import had been prothat the money had not been paid according to law; posed to the bill before the other House, and he trusted they presented a petition which the House and the Sena-that it would yet be carried, so as to pay the money either tor from Georgia objected to receive; and the ground of to the chiefs or the head council of the nation. Now, the honorable Senator's objections was, that they were a when the Executive was pursuing a course on this subforeign nation. ject, unpleasing to them, could they not respectfully ask

Mr. FORSYTH said they represented themselves as Congress, that such a mode might be adopted as would such. be beneficial to the nation at large? Where was the use of any indignation of feeling on the subject? Why should they be called audacious Cherokees.

Mr. CLAY said it did not matter what the petitioners said they were. Their connexion with us was well known. The laws of the United States did not treat them as a for- Mr. F. objected to this use of the term; the history of eign power, but as a people subordinate to the United their wrongs would better authorize the appellation of States, to a certain extent. The Supreme Court had de-injured Cherokees. Mr. F. did not see the evidence of clared them to be a domestic nation; and under these cir- their insolence; they had come here with a statement of cumstances, could there be any doubt that Congress had their wrongs, and the gentleman from Georgia might be a right to see that the money granted to them by law had assured, that if the bank had been worn threadbare, this been properly applied? There was but one ground upon was not a new subject, and never would be threadbare; it which the objection of the Senator from Georgia could be was interwoven with the character and reputation of the maintained, and that was, that the President, having taken people of the United States. When the Indian bill was the control over the treasury, had a right to apply the under discussion, Georgia declared that she intended to public money as he pleased, without the supervision of do them no wrong, but merely to bring them under the Congress. If the President could do this, then the Sen- State authority. But it was the duty of Congress to see ate might be said to have no right to interfere in the pres- whether they had been wronged, and the last mode which ent case. Mr. C. said he should not go into the general the American people would think of to sustain the public question of the horrible grievance which had been in-honor, would be for Congress to shut their door against Hicted upon the Indians, by that arbitrary policy which their complaints. The Senator from Georgia, representtrampled upon treaties and the faith of the nation; but he ing a State which had crushed them as a nation, was now did hope that the Senate would not consent to close its endeavoring to shut them out, because they represented doors against the humble petition presented by these poor themselves as the Cherokee nation. They had been Indians, in relation to an abuse which had been practised upon them by another branch of the Government. Mr. SPRAGUE made a few remarks upon the same side, and was briefly replied to by Mr. FORSYTH.

heretofore denied this title; they had been called poor devils; and now, because they called themselves a nation, Congress were to shut their ears against them. Mr. F. would let them call themselves the Cherokee nation; it Mr. BIBB then said, that as the yeas and nays had been was all that was left them; Georgia had stripped them of called for upon this question, he should take the liberty every thing else; and could the Senate answer it to the of saying a few words upon it. He thought the honora- fame and honor of the country, that because they had ble Senator from Georgia had suffered his feelings to car-called themselves by a title which had been given them ry him away from the true point at issue. Unless the in a series of treaties, ratified with them by Washington, treaties which the United States had entered into with and his distinguished successors, and considered sacred,