MAY 16, 1834.] Wilmington (Del.) Proceedings.—Pension Books.--Claim of Elizabeth Robinson. [SENATE. Senate, in a protest, to the highest tribunal to which an the report of the Committee on the Judiciary on the mesappeal could be made-the people. This tribunal was sage of the President of the United States on the subject now passing its opinion upon it, and sending its opinions of the pension books and the United States Bank. there; and, as an act of justice to posterity, the Senate Mr. CLAYTON then resumed and concluded his reought to print all documents presented by the people, marks; in the course of which, he moved to amend the whether they were for or against the action of the Senate, resolutions reported by the committee, by substituting for that posterity might see how the people of the United them the following: States received this appeal of the President. It was the bounden duty of the Senate to perpetuate the decision of the people. He would vote for printing every thing of that nature. Resolved, That the act of Congress for the relief of certain officers and soldiers of the Revolution, passed on the 15th of May, 1828, and the act supplementary to that act, passed on the 7th of June, 1832, are properly acts providing for the payment of military pensions. The President had ordered the printing of his own paper. He (Mr. P.) would like to see how the contin- Resolved, That no power is conferred by any law upon gent fund had been disposed of during the last few years. the Department or Secretary of War, to remove the agenIf a report were made of the manner in which the secret cy for the payment of pensioners under the said act of the service money had been expended, he doubted not that 7th June, 1832, and the funds, books, and papers conthe expense of printing the 40,000 copies of the Presi- nected with that agency, from the Bank of the United dent's protest would be found to be contained in it. It States, and to appoint other agents to supersede that bank might not be so, but this was his (Mr. P.'s) opinion. For- in the payment of such pensioners. ty thousand copies, however, of the President's protest had been sent to the people; the people were deciding upon it, and answering it, and he was for recording their decision. Mr. KANE then addressed the Senate, in reply to Mr. CLAYTON, and in vindication of the opinion of the Attorney General, and continued for some time, when he yielded the floor without having come to a conclusion; and The Senate adjourned. FRIDAY, MAY 16. CLAIM OF ELIZABETH ROBINSON. Mr. FORSYTH said he knew nothing about these 40,000 copies, but in answer to the Senator from Kentucky, he would venture to say, that not one cent of the expense of the printing of these copies had come out of the public treasury. He would never have referred to this subject, if Senators on the opposite side had not made accusations, and then drawn inferences from the silence of The previous orders were postponed, and the bill for himself and others. Gentlemen had said, "We have the relief of Elizabeth Robinson, only surviving daughter made assertions and you have not denied them: we there. of Lieutenant Wilde, deceased, of the revolutionary army, fore take it for granted that our assertions were correct.' was taken up. The bill was read a second time, considWith respect to the contingent fund under the care of ered as in Committee of the Whole, and amended by the President, if the Senator from Mississippi desired to striking out the amount of compensation. see how that fund was expended, he knew how informa- Mr. NAUDAIN moved further to amend it so as to tion could be procured. Any curiosity upon that head allow interest on the money from the time when it became might be satisfied by a resolution of the Senate or the other House. due. Mr. N. exhibited the grounds of the claim of Lieutenant Wilde, and urged the equity of allowing interest on the money which was due to him from the Government. It would be well, therefore, instead of indulging in imagination upon this matter, to have recourse to facts. There was no similarity, Mr. F. said, between the paper at present under debate and the memorial from Ohio Mr. WHITE admitted the claim to the principal sum, which had been referred to by the Senator from South but argued against the propriety and expediency of allowCarolina. That memorial had been referred, for action, ing interest, on the ground that the claim had not been to the Committee on Finance. The notion entertained, proved till the present time. that the printing of this document was of importance to Mr. NAUDAIN replied by referring to the various cases the Senate, was unfounded. The paper would be here, in which compensation and interest had been allowed, and although not printed. It would be placed on the files of he appealed to the Senator to instance a single case in the office, and that was a disposition of it quite as respect. which interest had been refused. He also urged the magful to the persons from whom it came as if it had been nanimity of the motive by which Lieutenant Wilde forbore given into the hands of the printer. If it were ordered to to present his claim during his life, which was, that the be printed, he would venture to say that the copies would Government was poor, and he was at that time unwilling never be referred to, but that they would be laid away with other rubbish. If he thought he was treating the people of Wilmington with disrespect in refusing to print, he would vote for the printing of the resolutions; but he did not think there was any thing disrespectful in the destination he wished to give them. The question was then taken on Mr. KANE's amendment; which was lost. The motion to print the proceedings was carried. Mr. POINDEXTER asked the Senate to consider a resolution presented by him some days since in relation to the printing the old Journals of Congress. Mr. P. said he did not desire a decision upon the subject at present, to increase its burdens. Mr. SMITH spoke in opposition to allowing interest, on account of the numerous similar cases which would be involved, and on the ground that the Government would fulfil its promise by paying the principal as soon as the claim should be presented. Mr. CHAMBERS spoke in favor of the amendment, referred to several specific cases of a similar kind, in which interest had been allowed, and urged that it was the established sense of the Senate that interest in such cases should be allowed. Mr. C. contended that interest ought to be paid, and cited two cases, one of which occurred in 1832 and the other in 1833, in which, upon similar claims, interest had been allowed. He compared this case with those provided for by the resolutions of 1776, 1778, and 1780. The first providing only for those who had lost a limb in the service; the second providing for all who had served in the Revolution; and the third providing that the pension should be paid to the widows The Senate then proceeded to the special order, being and legal representatives of those who had served. The but wished the matter to be referred to a committee. A discussion took place on Mr. P.'s motion, which was carried. Mr. P. then moved that the subject be referred to the Committee on the Judiciary, which was agreed to. PENSION BOOKS. VOL. X.-110 SENATE.] Claim of Elizabeth Robinson. [MAY 16, 1834. principle was the same: to induce men to flock to Mr. C. said, the claim made in this amendment amountthe Government standard. Mr. C. cited several cases. ed to about the half of that contained in the amendment None but Lieutenant Wilde could have applied for the of his honorable colleague. He rested the present amendmoney, and it was doubtful whether he would have ment on the facts of the case, as they were clearly proved got it; for the Government was at that time very ne- by the testimony of the captain, the fellow-soldiers, and cessitous. When the fact is admitted that the pension is the family of the individual in question. Looking at the correctly due, the Senate should not adhere merely to the return made by the Secretary of War, it appeared that letter of one resolution. It had always been the desire of there were but four individuals upon the pension roll from Congress to make those people comfortable; not to pay the State of Delaware, while from other States, which that, merely, which was strictly due in law, but to make had not rendered half the service during the war that the liberal payment; contended that such was the necessity of State of Delaware had, there were from 12 to 1,400 penthe Government at the time, that, not asking for the pensioners. Upwards of 5,000 men had been enlisted in the sion was an accommodation, and deserved interest as much State of Delaware during the revolutionary war-those as if there had been an agreement to that effect. There men were engaged in 33 pitched battles. At the battle was money enough to pay all the revolutionary soldiers; of Germantown, where the subject of this bill received and if not, the people of the United States would submit his wound, one-half of them were killed; and at the battle to be taxed to any extent, rather than suffer the daughter of Camden, 800 Delaware men went into the field, and or widow of a revolutionary soldier to say that the fear of only 196 came out. The result was, that those who had expense prevented the Government from doing her justice. fought hardest had been paid least. The heir of one of Mr. SHEPLEY made a few remarks upon the petition. the most gallant of these men now came forward; and the He said he was anxious that the consequence of the action Senate denied to her that compensation which, as had of the Senate upon this occasion should be well under-been clearly shown by his colleague, they had repeatedly stood. If the amendments which had been made were granted to others. He (Mr. C.) did not intend to argue followed out, more than a million of dollars might be the ground of this matter over again. He only wished drained, upon similar grounds, from the public treasury. now to make a plain statement of facts, in justification of Let the Senate adopt the principle contended for, and the amendment which he had brought forward. The inthey went down to the tomb and said they would remu- dividual in question had been badly wounded at the battle nerate all those whose ancestors had been wounded and of Germantown, and was brought to the house of his died in the Revolution. The debt would become as large daughter; who, by means of a little annuity which she as that created by the war. The heirs of the soldiers of possessed, contrived to maintain her father during eight the Revolution would become holders of stock, and would long years of suffering, and until he died of locked-jaw, hold it as long as possible, for the purpose of accumula-produced by the wound which he had received. Now, ting interest. He thought the Senate should pause upon he (Mr. C.) asked Senators what, in the case of the daughthis subject, more especially as it had been admitted that, ter not having been able to support her wounded father, in this case, there existed no legal claim to compensation. they would have done? They must have placed him in Mr. S. argued further, that the principle contended for an hospital, under the care of physicians and nurses; and might force the Government into a national debt, which they had determined to avoid, and that claims which have heretofore been disallowed for want of evidence, would be liable to be made good by evidence produced even by the remotest heirs of the claimants. would not that have cost them as much, or more, than the sum now asked? If it would, then he (Mr. C.) said he made this claim on the ground of justice. He made no appeal to the feelings of Senators, but went upon the facts of the case. If, however, the Senate chose to take galMr. WHITE denied that the cases which had been lantry, patriotism, and disinterestedness into consideration, quoted were similar to this, and that there was any pre-in no cases were those qualities more conspicuous than in cedent on which this case could be decided. He further the present one. Lieutenant Wilde refused to receive argued, that the claim or title to pay could not exist till it any compensation from his country during his life, because should be proved and presented; and from a resolution he said she was poor; to use his own words, he considerformerly adopted on this subject, he drew the conclusion, ed himself well paid in seeing the British conquered. that a claim of this kind could be established by the original claimant alone, during his life time, and could not be established afterwards by his legal representatives. He, as well as others on the same side, would allow no particular merit in the alleged motive for not presenting the claim, as the design might be to adopt an easy method of making a profitable investment of money at interest. He thought it would be quite liberal in the Government to allow the principal without the interest. Mr. CALHOUN saw no occasion for the payment of interest. If the principle were to be adopted, it would be difficult to ascertain to what results it might lead. He moved that the bill be laid upon the table. At the request of Mr. SPRAGUE, who said, that if the bill were now laid upon the table the discussion would last another day, Mr. CALHOUN withdrew his motion. Mr. PRESTON said, the amendment brought in a new principle in relation to the pension fund, which fund had been more abused than any other. Congress had recently passed a law by which five thousand pensioners were created, at an expense of two millions and a half; and the honorable Senator from Delaware now proposed to create another class, the expense attendant upon which was altogether incalculable. The principle contained in the amendment was, that Congress should make gratuities to all those individuals whose ancestors had been wounded in the revolutionary war. The wealth of the Indies could be scarcely sufficient for this purpose; it might so happen, too, that some individuals would desire to open the sluices of the public treasury; and if so, this principle would af ford them an opportunity of doing it. The amendment of the Senator from Delaware claimed interest of much more dangerous tendency than that which was originally Mr. NAUDAIN again addressed the Senate on the sub-proposed. If this amendment prevailed, there was scarceject of the amendment. The question was then taken upon the amendment by yeas and nays, and resulted as follows: yeas 8, nays 32. The amendment was consequently lost. Mr. CLAYTON then moved to amend the bill by striking out the original claim to compensation, and inserting "that $2,000 be paid to the heirs of Lieutenant Wilde, in payment of all claims." ly a gentlemen on the floor of the Senate who would not be entitled to make a similar demand. The ancestors of most of them had rendered services of this kind to their country. Almost every gentleman present might rise and say, "We have claims-pay us!" Mr. P. concluded by moving to lay the amendment on the table. Mr. CLAYTON denied that his amendment introduced any new system of pensions. The principle upon which MAY 16, 1834.] Claim of Elizabeth Robinson. [SENATE. his proposition was founded was, that the Senate should much should be granted to every application where serpay a debt. He wished to know whether the Govern- vices or sufferings could be established. The present ment would not have been obliged to support this individ- was not a solitary question. Hundreds of thousands could ual in an hospital, if he had not been supported by his be brought to claim pensions. If the funds of Governdaughter? He (Mr. C.) did not bring this claim forward ment were to be distributed in this way, millions would as a pension, but as a debt. He agreed with the Senator claim it-there would be a general scene of plunder. He from South Carolina, that the pension system had been could not, as a Senator of the United States, agree to such carried too far; but the abuse consisted in the fact that a precedent. those had been paid who never rendered any service to their country, while the really meritorious soldier of the Revolution had been in many cases neglected. Mr. WEBSTER thought that an examination of the subject would show that such fraud as had been mentioned did not exist. It appeared that most of the penMr. PRESTON said, the Government did owe a debt sions now on the list were for militia service, which was which it could never pay, the debt which it owed to the generally for six months only. Where there was so short efforts and sufferings of those who achieved our inde- a period of service, it would naturally bring so many into pendence. Mr. P. alluded to General Marion in particular, and to others, who had made great sacrifices in the war of the Revolution. There were many to whom the country owed ten times as much as the amount of the claim now made. Mr. P. thought that 100,000 might be brought whose claims would be equally good. There were now 24,000 names on the pension list, and Mr. P. believed there could not be such a number without frauds on the Government. He viewed it in the light of ingratitude to the greater number, if a few only of such claims should be allowed, and he deemed it impracticable to pay the whole debt with money. the service, that gentlemen need not be surprised that there still existed such a number as twenty-four thousand four hundred. The pensions were not granted for services during the whole war, but for services which were rendered for any length of time during the war. The number of pensioners in New York and that in South Carolina was about the proportion, according to the circumstances. The troops came in greater numbers from the North than from the South, and would, doubtless, when the war was ended, generally return to their own part of the country. The city of New York, as it existed at that time, was but small in comparison with what it is now; it began to inMr. CLAYTON remarked, that there was not a well- crease after that time, and its increase of population was fought field in South Carolina, in which the Delaware derived principally from New England; so that many of line was not engaged in the front of the contest. He the pensioners in New York had been soldiers of New mentioned the particular cases. He said, of the Dela- England. ware regiment, which consisted originally of 500 men, Mr. CLAYTON was of opinion that, in this case, the which was recruited from time to time, and fought in 33 Senate ought to do the same justice to the applicant as pitched battles, only 197 men returned alive to Delaware. the individual Senators would feel themselves bound to Lieutenant Wilde had been wounded at Germantown, do in their character as private gentlemen, and he looked and was supported eight years by his daughter, during for a decision of the Senate on that ground. He did not which time he required the continual attendance of a think that the bounty of Government had been fairly dis nurse and physician. She now asked a compensation for tributed; although it had been distributed as fairly as cirsupporting her father, who had been disabled in the pub- cumstances would allow. Several individuals had, he had lic service, and if the Senator from South Carolina should no doubt, received bounties for little or no service perpresent a similar claim, it would give Mr. C. great pleas- formed, while others who were highly meritorious had ure to vote for it. been neglected. Congress had erred in passing general rules to reward the troops instead of rewarding particular cases. Mr. WEBSTER made some remarks in relation to the supposed frauds to which Mr. PRESTON had alluded. Mr. W. believed such frauds were extremely rare, and that ten rightful claimants were excluded, for want of proof, for every instance of a fraudulent insertion of a name on he pension roll. Mr. PRESTON thought he could not be mistaken. Allowing the average age of revolutionary soldiers to have been twenty years, it must now be about seventyfive years. He thought it impossible that so many pensioners could now be living. Mr. P. stated further, that longevity was proportioned inversely to the degrees of latitude, being greater at the South and less at the North; that the last violent struggle of the Revolution was in the Southern States, when the whole Southern militia was in the field, and yet New York had eighteen times as many pensioners as South Carolina, though its population was only four times as great. South Carolina had three hundred and twelve, and New York one thousand nine hundred. New York had seven times the number of Pennsylvania. Mr. P. thought it impossible that such a state of things could be correct. God forbid that he should have any preference for the pensioners in one State above those of another. They had all fought bravely, and, if any one came forward and established his claim to a pension on South Carolina, she would discharge it, to whatever State the individual might bebelong. But he put it to the gentleman, would he―dared he to establish a principle of that kind, which would open a door to such a torrent of applications? It would make the Government a mere pension agency. To get rid of trouble, the Legislature would pass a general law, that as Mr. PRESTON asked for the yeas and nays. He acknowledged that there were more Northern troops in the war than others. The forces of South Carolina consisted of militia. They did as much duty, and had as many soldiers; but the habitudes of the South prevented the people from remaining so long in the army. Mr. CLAYTON modified the amendment, by moving the insertion of the words two thousand dollars for the pension to which the deceased was entitled, and to defray the expenses which were incurred in his boarding. Mr. MOORE objected to the amendment. The pension might have been paid in the regular course-there was no evidence before the committee to the contrary. He thought the committee, in examining the case, had come to the conclusion that the petitioner was not entitled to the pension, but that they granted it on account of the man's sufferings. Mr. CLAYTON thought that this man had never received any pension. The question on the amendment was then taken, and negatived by the following vote: YEAS.-Messrs. Chambers, Clay, Clayton, Freling huysen, Hendricks, Kent, McKean, Naudain, Poindexter, Porter, Prentiss, Robbins, Silsbee, Tipton, Wilkins.-15. NAYS.-Messrs. Bell, Benton, Bibb, Brown, Calhoun, Forsyth, Grundy, Hill, Kane, King of Alabama, King of Georgia, Knight, Mangum, Moore, Morris, Preston, Robinson, Shepley, Smith, Swift, Tallmadge, Tomlinson, Tyler, White, Wright.-25. Mr. CALHOUN thought this case was like many SENATE.] Claim of Elizabeth Robinson.-Baltimore and Washington Railroad. [MAY 19, 1834. others, and that it would open a wide door for such ap-wanted. In all other grants there was a proviso to the plications hereafter. effect that the company should not charge any thing extra Mr. MOORE stated as the distinction from other cases for carrying the United States mail, soldiers, or munitions which had influenced the minds of the committee, that of war. It was proposed to give the company three hunthe heir of a gallant officer had supported him when dis-dred and twenty thousand dollars, the interest arising abled, after having rendered important services, and on from which would be sufficient to pay for the carriage of this ground the claim had been allowed by the committee. the mail betwixt Washington and Baltimore forever. He Mr. CALHOUN thought that allowing the claim, even would move to amend the bill by inserting a proviso that on this distinction, would go to establish the principle, the company should not charge the Post Office Departthat the claims of invalid pensioners should be carried ment, or its mail contractor, tolls for the passage on the back to the time of receiving the wound; and this, he road of any cars or other vehicles in which they may said, would be contrary to the whole usage of the Gov-transport the mail. ernment, and would establish a dangerous precedent. Mr. POINDEXTER, for the reason assigned by the lost a great part of the season wherein they might have Senator, [Mr. CALHOUN,] would prefer that a round sum should be named, as had been done by the Senator from Delaware, [Mr. CLAYTON,] and he would be glad if one of the majority who voted on that proposition would move to reconsider it. Mr. CLAY, if there was any instance of an officer being supported eight years by his daughter, and then dy ing of lock-jaw, would like to be informed of it by the Senator from South Carolina. Mr. CALHOUN, if it were not for establishing a precedent, would vote for the bill. Mr. CLAY would vote for five hundred such, if they were lock-jaw cases. Mr. CALHOUN regarded the precedent as resting, not on the lock-jaw, but on the circumstance of carrying back an invalid pension to the time of receiving the wound. Mr. MANGUM also thought the precedent would be dangerous; and for the purpose of giving more time to consider it, he moved to lay the subject on the table, but withdrew the motion at the request of Mr. MOORE, who moved to amend the bill, by inserting the round sum of 800 dollars instead of the 2,000 dollars, proposed by Mr. CLAYTON; but withdrew the motion at the suggestion of Mr. CALHOUN, who regarded such a precedent as still more dangerous, because it was more indefinite. Mr. POINDEXTER moved to reconsider the vote on the amendment offered by Mr. CLAYTON, to insert 2,000 dollars; but the motion to reconsider was not carried. The bill was then ordered to be engrossed, and read a third time, by the following vote: YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Chambers, Clay, Clayton, Frelinghuysen, Hendricks, Kent, Knight, Linn, Moore, Naudain, Poindexter, Porter, Prentiss, Robbins, Silsbee, Smith, Sprague, Swift, Tipton, Tomlinson, White, Wilkins.-23. Mr. CHAMBERS complained that the company had been at work on this lateral branch of the road if the bill After some remarks from Mr. HENDRICKS, he with- MONDAY, MAY 19. BALTIMORE AND WASHINGTON RAILROAD. The act relative to the construction of a lateral branch of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad in the District of Columbia, with the amendment offered by Mr. CHAMBERS, authorizing the Government to terminate its contract for carrying the mail whenever necessary, was then taken up for consideration. Mr. GRUNDY stated it as his opinion, that if this bill passed, the Government would be obliged to carry the mail for twenty years by this, and no other route. Mr. CHAMBERS begged permission to save the honorable Senator from Tennessee some trouble. Mr. C. stated that he would withdraw his original amendment, and introduce another, by which the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company should be compelled to carry the mail for twenty years, free of all expense to the Government. Mr. C. then offered an amendment to that effect. Mr. GRUNDY said this was certainly gaining considerNAYS.-Messrs. Benton, Bibb, Brown, Calhoun, For-ably, and if this matter could be placed on the footing of syth, Grundy, Hill, Kane, King of Alabama, King of a fair contract, then Congress might deliberate upon it. Georgia, Mangum, Morris, Preston, Robinson, Shepley, He wished, however, to call the attention of the Senate Tallmadge, Tyler, Wright.-18. On motion of Mr. WILKINS, it was ordered, that when the Senate adjourn, it adjourn to meet on Monday. BALTIMORE AND WASHINGTON RAILROAD. Mr. CHAMBERS moved that the Senate proceed to the consideration of the bill to aid in the construction of a lateral railroad between Washington and Baltimore; which was taken up accordingly. On the question whether the bill should pass- Mr. CHAMBERS moved that the bill be amended by inserting, at the end of the second section, a proviso that the Postmaster General might, at any time when he thought proper, terminate the contract with the Railroad Company, for transporting the mail, and transport it by some other mode. Mr. HENDRICKS thought there was another proviso to a principle in the bill, which he thought likely to produce serious difficulties. At the last session principle had been laid down from which he did not wish to depart, viz. that this Government would collect only as much money in taxes as was absolutely necessary for its support. This principle seemed to be agreed to by all, at the time of the compromise bill. Now, if they opened avenues to expenditure, they created a necessity for money; taxation became indispensable, and could not be objected to by any one. What was the situation of Congress with regard to this bill, before the amendment had been offered? It was proposed that they should give money to companies in the different States to make roads. Mr. G. said, that this company was incorporated by the Legislature of Maryland, and the company owned the whole stock, except what belonged to the State. Coining into this district with a part of the road, could not change the principle, and Congress might as well give money to a company in Virginia, as to a com MAY 19, 1834.] Baltimore and Washington Railroad. [SENATE. pany in the District. The only mode in which Congress Columbia would be under the legislation of Congress, and could act, was to become a partner. In this case the not under the State of Maryland, further than that incormoney was not to be given to the District, but to a com-poration had connexion with other improvements conpany in Maryland, to which the State was a party; and if nected with it. He would decline the proposition offerthis were done, what was to hinder Congress from giving ed by the honorable Senator from Indiana, [Mr. HENthe public money to a company in New York? Mr. G. DRICKS,] and contended that the Government received a thought there was no difference. Besides, if Congress fair equivalent, besides the improvement of the country appropriated money for this road, what forbade them to and the facility of transporting the mail. This equivalent give money to any corporation, for a road pointing to the was to be received in the shape of services to be renderseat of Government? Mr. G. therefore thought that in ed, which the United States could not obtain for the same principle they were opening a dangerous outlet for the money by any other mode. Money had been given to public money; it was better to return to the old idea of a canals and other improvements, and the Senate was dealpartnership, than to adopt a principle by which they ing more hardly with this company than any other. He might give money to a company in any part of the United hoped the Senate would, in its liberality, contribute to States. Mr. G. would not go into the question of consti- convert this into a useful improvement, for the use of intutional power, on this subject; but he thought it strange dividuals and the Government, and give the sum proif Congress might give away the money of the United posed. States for any purpose they pleased. There were pecu- Mr. GRUNDY said, Congress did possess jurisdiction liar cases in which it had been given away, such as that over the ten miles square, and had expended money on of the fire in Alexandria, and the more recent case of the Pennsylvania avenue. Had it not a right to do so? For what exiled Poles. Mr. G. hoped these benevolent acts would purpose was that money expended? That every citizen not be blamed; but he could not vote for them, because in the United States and every individual in the country he could not see that they had authority to give away the might have the benefit of it. But what was the case with public money. Mr. G. therefore could not vote for this the railroad? The money was given to a set of individubill in any shape; but if the Government were to receive als, exclusive of all others, and for their exclusive benean equivalent for their money, he was ready to see the fit. It was not for the benefit of the United States, or of object promoted. He wished the appropriation might be the citizens of the United States, but for individuals in reduced, so as to be an equivalent for the transportation the State of Maryland or elsewhere. They were to be enof the mails. titled to the money, and the use of it afterwards. The money given to the Canal Company made the Government stockholders in the undertaking, and it expected a dividend when profit should arise. It was not giving the money for the exclusive use of any corporation, because the people of the United States would have the benefit Mr. HENDRICKS hoped the amendment would be adopted; but in that case he should move further to amend the bill by striking out "twenty years," and inserting "forever hereafter." Mr. H. thought the company could well afford to carry the mail in perpetuam for the interest of the money. Mr. CHAMBERS would not object to the amendment proposed, if it should be acceptable; but he wished the amendment first proposed might be adopted, and then the other two might be taken up separately. of it. Mr. CHAMBERS said he did not allude to the Chesapeake and Ohio canal. Mr. GRUNDY said that made a difference. But there was a prospect of a return. In the act of 1833, the RailThe first amendment was then agreed to. road Company was to pay, for the use of the State of MaryMr. HENDRICKS, at the suggestion of Mr. FORSYTH, land, one-fifth of the amount to be received for the moved to amend the bill, by a requisition that the mail transportation of passengers, which was to be paid into the should be carried free of expense as long as the company treasury of Maryland. What for? Because Maryland should exist. Mr. H. supported this amendment by read- contributed five hundred thousand dollars to the stock. ing an extract from a letter of the chief engineer, con- Then Maryland put into the stock five hundred thousand taining an estimate of the expenses of conveyance on the dollars, and for this it was to receive one-fifth of all that road, from which Mr. H. drew the conclusion that the should be received for the carriage of passengers; while mail could be carried at an annual expense of $20,000, or Government, for three hundred and fifty thousand dolless, while the interest on the appropriation would be lars, was to receive nothing but the transportation of the $21,000. Mr. H. concluded by contending that some se-mail, which would come to an inconsiderable sum. curity ought to be given against monopoly. did not wish to go into an examination of the profit and He Mr. CHAMBERS argued, that in twenty years the Gov-loss attendant upon this matter, but there was a principle ernment would receive as an equivalent for the money at the bottom of it which he wished the Senate to decide proposed, the value of one million and fifty odd thousand upon. Would they give the public money away to comdollars. Appropriations have been made to the Western panies? If they gave $350,000 to this company, and improvements day by day, without recompense; but now $350,000 to another, what would become of all their Congress must not make an appropriation without show-boasted economy? What would become of all their plans ing that we are to receive seven and sixpence for a dol- of restricted expenditure which they had held out to the lar. No company would be willing to enter into an agree- people of the United States. They would be gone, and ment without knowing the extent of the engagement. It Congress would hear talk of nothing but waste, prodigalwas very well to carry the mail for a limited time, but no ity, and profligate expenditure. He objected to the company would agree to carry it forever. He was equal-principle of giving money to companies out of the public ly surprised at the remarks which had fallen from the treasury, because, if this were done in one case, it must honorable Senator from Tennessee. The constitution be done in another. said that Congress had a right to exercise legislation in all cases in the District of Columbia. He instanced the grant made to the Chesapeake' and Ohio canal, which had its termination in Georgetown, and asked what was the difference between the improvement of Pennsylvania avenue and any other improvements in the District. But the gentleman considered this as a Maryland incorporation, and subject to the Legislature of Maryland. He contended that so much of the road as should be in the District of Mr. HENDRICKS said a few words in reply to the Senator from Maryland, [Mr. CHAMBERS,] which were indistinctly heard. We understood him as stating that no appropriations had been made for internal improvements in the West, without an adequate and more than an adequate equivalent having been received by Government. Mr. PRESTON said it became the Senate to look attentively into the subject of appropriations; it was peculiarly proper that they should do so after the opinions they |