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Mar 16, 1834.]

Wilmington ( Del. ) Proceedings.- Pension Books.--Claim of Elizabeth Robinson.


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Senate, in a protest, to the highest tribunal to which an the report of the Committee on the Judiciary on the mes-
appeal could be made-the people. This tribunal was sage of the President of the United States on the subject
now passing its opinion upon it, and sending its opinions of the pension books and the United States Bank.
there; and, as an act of justice to posterity, the Senate Mr. CLAYTON then resumed and concluded his re.
ought to print all documents presented by the people, marks; in the course of which, he moved to amend the
whether they were for or against the action of the Senate, resolutions reported by the committee, by substituting for
that posterity might see how the people of the United them the following:
States received this appeal of the President. It was the Resolved, That the act of Congress for the relief of cer-
bounden duty of the Senate to perpetuate the decision of tain officers and soldiers of the Revolution, passed on the
the people. He would vote for printing every thing of 15th of May, 1828, and the act supplementary to that act,
that nature.

passed on the 7th of June, 1832, are properly acts proviThe President had ordered the printing of his own ding for the payment of military pensions. paper. He (Mr. P.) would like to see how the contin. Resolved, That no power is conferred by any law upon gent fund had been disposed of during the last few years. the Department or Secretary of War, to remove the agenIf a report were made of the manner in which the secret cy for the payment of pensioners under the said act of the service money had been expended, he doubted not that 7th June, 1832, and the funds, books, and papers conthe expense of printing the 40,000 copies of the Presi- nected with that agency, from the Bank of the United dent's protest would be found to be contained in it. It States, and to appoint other agents to supersede that bank might not be so, but this was his (Mr. P.'s) opinion. For- in the payment of such pensioners. ty thousand copies, however, of the President's protest Mr. KANE then addressed the Senate, in reply to Mr. had been sent to the people; the people were deciding Clayton, and in vindication of the opinion of the Attorupon it, and answering it, and he was for recording their ney General

, and continued for some time, when he yielddecision.

ed the floor without having come to a conclusion; and
Mr. FORSYTH said he knew nothing about these The Senate adjourned.
40,000 copies, but in answer to the Senator from Ken-
tucky, he would venture to say, that not one cent of the

FRIDAY, Mar 16.
expense of the printing of these copies had come out of the
public treasury. He would never have referred to this

subject, if Senators on the opposite side had not made ac- On motion of Mr. NAUDAIN,
cusations, and then drawn inferences from the silence of The previous orders were postponed, and the bill for
himself and others. Gentlemen had said, “We have the relief of Elizabeth Robinson, only surviving daughter
made assertions and you have not denied them: we there. of Lieutenant Wilde, deceased, of the revolutionary army,
fore take it for granted that our assertions were correct.” was taken up. The bill was read a second time, consid-
With respect to the contingent fund under the care ofered as in Committee of the whole, and amended by
the President, if the Senator from Mississippi desired to striking out the amount of compensation.
see how that fund was expended, he knew how informa-

Mr. NAUDAIN moved further to amend it so as to tion could be procured.' Any curiosity upon that head allow interest on the money from the time when it became might be satisfied by a resolution of the Senate or the due. other House.

Mr. N. exhibited the grounds of the claim of LieuIt would be well, therefore, instead of indulging in tenant Wilde, and urged the equity of allowing interimagination upon this matter, to have recourse to facts. est on the money which was due to him from the Gov. There was no similarity, Mr. F. said, between the paper ernment. at present under debate and the memorial from Ohio

Mr. WHITE admitted the claim to the principal sum, which had been referred to by the Senator from South but argued against the propriety and expediency of allowCarolina. That memorial had been referred, for action, ing interest, on the ground that the claim had not been to the Committee on Finance. The notion entertained, proved till the present time. that the printing of this document was of importance to Mr. NAUDAIN replied by referring to the various cases the Senate, was unfounded. The paper would be here, in which compensation and interest had been allowed, and although no: printed. It would be placed on the files of he appealed to the Senator to instance a single case in the office, and that was a disposition of it quite as respect. which interest had been refused. He also urged the magful to the persons from whom it came as if it had been nanimity of the motive by which Lieutenant Wilde forbore given into the hands of the printer. If it were ordered to to present his claim during his life, which was, that the be printed, he would venture to say that the copies would Government was poor, and he was at that time unwilling never be referred to, but that they would be laid away to increase its burdens. with other rubbish. If he thought he was treating the Mr. SMITH spoke in opposition to allowing interest, on people of Wilmington with disrespect in refusing to print, account of the numerous similar cases which would be in. he would vote for the printing of the resolutions; but he volved, and on the ground that the Government would did not think there was any thing disrespectful in the des. fulfil its promise by paying the principal as soon as the tination he wished to give them.

claim should be presented. The question was then taken on Mr. Kare's amend. Mr. CHAMBERS spoke in favor of the amendment, ment; which was lost.

referred to several specific cases of a similar kind, in which The motion to print the proceedings was carried.

interest had been allowed, and urged that it was the esMr. POINDEXTER asked the Senate to consider a tablished sense of the Senate that interest in such cases resolution presented by him some days since in relation to should be allowed. Mr. C. contended that interest ought the printing the old Journals of Congress. Mr. P. said to be paid, and cited two cases, one of which occurred in he did not desire a decision upon the subject at present, 1832 and the other in 1833, in which, upon similar claims, but wished the matter to be referred to a committee.

interest had been allowed. He compared this case with A discussion took place on Mr. P.'s motion, which was those provided for by the resolutions of 1776, 1778, and carried. Mr. P. then moved that the subject be referred 1780. The first providing only for those who had lost to the Committee on the Judiciary, which was agreed to. a limb in the service; the second providing for all who

had served in the Revolution; and the third proviPENSION BOOKS.

ding that the pension should be paid to the widows The Senate then proceeded to the special order, being and legal representatives of those who had served. The

Vol. X.-110


Claim of Elizabeth Robinson.

[Mar 16, 1834.

principle was the same: to induce men to flock to Mr. C. said, the claim made in this amendment amountthe Government standard. Mr. C. cited several cases. ed to about the half of that contained in the amendment None but Lieutenant Wilde could have applied for the of his honorable colleague. He rested the present amendmoney, and it was doubtful whether he would have ment on the facts of the case, as they were clearly proved got it; for the Government was at that time very ne- by the testimony of the captain, the fellow-soldiers, and cessitous. When the fact is admitted that the pension is the family of the individual in question. Looking at the correctly due, the Senate should not adhere merely to the return made by the Secretary of War, it appeared that letter of one resolution. It had always been the desire of there were but four individuals upon the pension roll from Congress to make those people comfortable; not to pay the State of Delaware, while from other States, which that, merely, which was strictly due in law, but to make had not rendered half the service during the war that the liberal payment; contended that such was the necessity of State of Delaware had, there were from 12 to 1,400 pen. the Government at the time, that, not asking for the pensioners. Upwards of 5,000 men had been enlisted in the sion was an accommodation, and deserved interest as much State of Delaware during the revolutionary war—those as if there had been an agreement to that effect. There men were engaged in 33 pitched battles. At the battle was money enough to pay all the revolutionary soldiers; of Germantown, where the subject of this bill received and if not, the people of the United States would submit his wound, one-half of them were killed; and at the battle to be taxed to any extent, rather than suffer the daughter of Camden, 800 Delaware men went into the field, and or widow of a revolutionary soldier to say that the fear of only 196 came out. The result was, that those who had expense prevented the Government from doing her justice. fought hardest had been paid least. The heir of one of

Mr. SHEPLEY made a few remarks upon the petition. the most gallant of these men now came forward; and the He said he was anxious that the consequence of the action Senate denied to her that compensation which, as had of the Senate upon this occasion should be well under- been clearly shown by his colleague, they had repeatedly stood. If the amendments which had been made were granted to others. He (Mr. C.) did not intend to argue followed out, more than a million of dollars might be the ground of this matter over again. He only wished drained, upon similar grounds, from the public treasury: now to make a plain statement of facts, in justification of Let the Senate adopt the principle contended for, and the amendment which he bad brought forward. The inthey went down to the tomb and said they would remu- dividual in question had been badly wounded at the battle nerale all those whose ancestors had been wounded and of Germantown, and was brought to the house of bis died in the Revolution. The debt would become as large daughter; whu, by means of a little annuity which she as that created by the war. The heirs of the soldiers of possessed, contrived to maintain her father during eight the Revolution would become holders of stock, and would long years of suffering, and until he died of locked-jaw, hold it as long as possible, for the purpose of accumula- produced by the wound which he had received. Now, ting interest. He thought the Senate should pause upon he (Mr. C.) asked Senators what, in the case of the daughthis subject, more especially as it had been admitted that, ter not having been able to support her wounded father, in this case, there existed no legal claim to compensation. they would have done? They must have placed him in Mr. S. argued further, that the principle contended for an hospital, under the care of physicians and nurses; and might force the Government into a national debt, which would not that have cost them as much, or more, than the they had determined to avoid, and that claims which have sum now asked? If it would, then he (Mr. C.) said he heretofore been disallowed for want of evidence, would made this claim on the ground of justice. He made no be liable to be made good by evidence produced even by appeal to the feelings of Senators, but went upon the facts the remotest heirs of the claimants.

of the case. If, however, the Senate chose to take galMr. WHITE denied that the cases which had been lantry, patriotism, and disinterestedness into consideration, quoted were similar to this, and that there was any pre-in no cases were those qualities more conspicuous than in cedent on which this case could be decided. He further the present one. Lieutenant Wilde refused to receive argued, that the claim or title to pay could not exist till it any compensation from his country during his life, because should be proved and presented; and from a resolution he said she was poor; to use his own words, he considerformerly adopted on this subject, he drew the conclusion, ed himself well paid in seeing the British conquered. that a claim of this kind could be established by the ori- Mr. PRESTON said, the amendment brought in a new ginal claimant alone, during his life time, and could not principle in relation to the pension fund, which fund had be established afterwards by his legal representatives. been more abused than any other. Congress had recentHe, as well as others on the same side, would allow no ly passed a law by which five thousand pensioners were particular merit in the alleged motive for not presenting created, at an expense of two millions and a half; and the the claim, as the design might be to adopt an easy method honorable Senator from Delaware now proposed to create of making a profitable investment of money at interest. another class, the expense attendant upon which was alHe thought it would be quite liberal in the Government together incalculable. The principle contained in the to allow the principal without the interest.

amendment was, that Congress should make gratuities to Mr. CALHOUN saw no occasion for the payment of in- all those individuals whose ancestors had been wounded in terest. If the principle were to be adopted, it would be the revolutionary war. The wealth of the Indies could difficult to ascertain to what results it might lead. He be scarcely sufficient for this purpose; it might so happen, moved that the bill be laid upon the table.

too, that some individuals would desire to open the sluices At the request of Mr. SPRAGUE, who said, that if the of the public treasury; and if so, this principle would af. bill were now laid upon the table the discussion would ford them an opportunity of doing it. The amendment last another day,

of the Senator from Delaware claimed interest of much Mr. CALHOUN withdrew his motion.

more dangerous tendency than that which was originally Mr. NAUDAIN again addressed the Senate on the sub- proposed. If this amendment prevailed, there was scarce. ject of the amendment.

ly a gentleinen on the floor of the Senate who would The question was then taken upon the amendment by not be entitled to make a similar demand. The ancestors yeas and nays, and resulted as follows: yeas 8, nays 32. of most of them had rendered services of this kind to The amendment was consequently lost.

their country. Almost every gentleman present might rise Mr. CLAYTON then moved to amend the bill by stri. and say, “We have claims-pay us!” Mr. P. concluded king out the original claim to compensation, and inserting by moving to lay the amendment on the table. “that $2,000 be paid to the heirs of Lieutenant Wilde, Mr. CLAYTON denied that his amendment introduced in payment of all claims."

any new system of pensions. The principle upon which

Mar 16, 1834.)
Claim of Elizabeth Robinson.

(SENATE. his proposition was founded was, that the Senate should much should be granted to every application where serpay a debt. He wished to know whether the Govern- vices or sufferings could be established. The present ment would not have been obliged to support this individ- was not a solitary question. Hundreds of thousands could ual in an hospital, if he had not been supported by his be brought to claim pensions. If the funds of Governdaughter? He (Mr. C.) did not bring this claim forward ment were to be distributed in this way, millions would as a pension, but as a debt. He agreed with the Senator claim it-there would be a general scene of plunder. He from South Carolina, that the pension system had been could not, as a Senator of the United States, agree to such carried too far; but the abuse consisted in the fact that a precedent. those had been paid who never rendered any service to Mr. WEBSTER thought that an examination of the their country, while the really meritorious soldier of the subject would show that such fraud as had been menRevolution had been in many cases neglected.

tioned did not exist. It appeared that most of the penMr. PRESTON said, the Government did owe a debtsions now on the list were for militia service, which was which it could never pay, the debt which it owed to the generally for six months only. Where there was so short efforts and sufferings of those who achieved our inde a period of service, it would naturally bring so many into pendence. Mr. P. alluded to General Marion in particu- the service, that gentlemen need not be surprised that there lar, and to others, who had made great sacrifices in the still existed such a number as twenty-four thousand four war of the Revolution. There were many to whom the hundred. The pensions were not granted for services country owed ten times as much as the amount of the during the whole war, but for services which were renclaim now made. Mi P. thought that 100,000 might be dered for any length of time during the war. The numbrought whose claims would be equally good. There ber of pensioners in New York and that in South Carolina were now 24,000 names on the pension list, and Mr. P. was about the proportion, according to the circumstances. believed there could not be such a number without frauds The troops came in greater numbers from the North than on the Government. He viewed it in the light of ingrat- from the South, and would, doubtless, when the war was itude to the greater number, if a few only of such claims ended, generally return to their own part of the country, should be allowed, and he deemed it impracticable to pay the city of New York, as it existed at that time, was but the whole debt with money.

small in comparison with what it is now; it began to inMr. CLAYTON remarked, that there was not a well.crease after that time, and its increase of population was fought field in South Carolina, in which the Delaware derived principally from New England; so that many of line was not engaged in the front of the contest. He the pensioners in New York had been soldiers of New mentioned the particular cases. He said, of the Dela. England. ware regiment, which consisted originally of 500 men, Mr. CLAYTON was of opinion that, in this case, the which was recruited from time to time, and fought in 33 Senate ought to do the same justice to the applicant as pitched battles, only 197 men returned alive to Delaware. the individual Senators would feel themselves bound to Lieutenant Wilde had been wounded at Germantown, do in their character as private gentlemen, and he looked and was supported eight years by his daughter, during for a decision of the Senate on that ground. He did not which time he required the continual attendance of a think that the bounty of Government had been fairly disnurse and physician. She now asked a compensation for tributed; although it had been distributed as fairly as cirsupporting her father, who had been disabled in the pub-cumstances would allow. Several individuals had, he had lic service, and if the Senator from South Carolina should no doubt, received bounties for little or no service perpresent a similar claim, it would give Mr. C. great pleas- formed, while others who were highly meritorious had ure to vote for it.

been neglected. Congress had erred in passing general Mr. WEBSTER made some remarks in relation to the rules to reward the troops instead of rewarding particusupposed frauds to which Mr. Prestox had alluded. Mr. lar cases. W. believed such frauds were extremely rare, and that Mr. PRESTON asked the yeas and nays. He acten rightful claimants were excluded, for want of proof, knowledged that there were more Northern troops in for every instance of a fraudulent insertion of a name on the war than others. The forces of South Carolina conhe pension roll.

sisted of militia. They did as much duty, and had as many Mr. PRESTON thought he could not be mistaken. soldiers; but the habitudes of the South prevented the Allowing the average age of revolutionary soldiers to people from remaining so long in the army. have been twenty years, it must now be about seventy- Mr. CLAYTON modified the amendment, by moving five years. He thought it impossible that so many pen- the insertion of the words two thousand dollars for the sioners could now be living. Mr. P. stated further, that pension to which the deceased was entitled, and to defray longevity was proportioned inversely to the degrees of lati. the expenses which were incurred in his boarding: tude, being greater at the South and less at the North; that Mr. MOORE objected to the amendment. The penthe last violent struggle of the Revolution was in the sion might have been paid in the regular course-there Southern States, when the whole Southern militia was in was no evidence before the committee to the contrary. the field, and yet New York had eighteen times as many He thought the committee, in examining the case, had pensioners as South Carolina, though its population was come to the conclusion that the petitioner was not entitled only four times as great. South Carolina had three to the pension, but that they granted it on account of the hundred and twelve, and New York one thousand nine man's sufferings. hundred. New York had seven times the number of Mr. CLAYTON thought that this man had never re. Pennsylvania. Mr. P. thought it impossible that such a ceived any pension. state of things could be correct. God forbid that he The question on the amendment was then taken, and should have any preference for the pensioners in one negatived by the following vote: State above those of another. They had all fought YEAS.- Messrs. Chambers, Clay, Clayton, Freling. bravely, and, if any one came forward and established huysen, Hendricks, Kent, McKean, Naudain, Poindexter, his claim to a pension on South Carolina, she would Porter, Prentiss, Robbins, Silsbee, Tipton, Wilkins.-15. discharge it, to whatever State the individual might be. NAYS.-Messrs. Bell, Benton, Bibb, Brown, Calhoun, belong. But he put it to the gentleman, would he~dared Forsyth, Grundy, Hill, Kane, King of Alabama, King he to establish a principle of that kind, which would open of Georgia, Knight, Mangum, Moore, Morris, Preston, a door to such a torrent of applications? It would make Robinson, Shepley, Smith, Swift, Tallmadge, Tomlinson, the Government a mere pension agency. To get rid of Tyler, White, Wright.--25. trouble, the Legislature would pass a general law, that as/ Mr. CALHOUN thought this case was like many


Claim of Elizabeth Robinson.-

Baltimore and Washington Railroad.

(May 19, 1834.

others, and that it would open a wide door for such ap- wanted. In all other grants there was a proviso to the plications hereafter.

effect that the company should not charge any thing extra Mr. MOORE stated as the distinction from other cases for carrying the United States mail, soldiers, or munitions which had influenced the minds of the committee, that of war. It was proposed to give the company three hunthe heir of a gallant officer had supported him when dis- dred and twenty thousand dollars, the interest arising abled, after having rendered important services, and on from which would be sufficient to pay for the carriage of this ground the claim had been allowed by the committee. the mail betwixt Washington and Baltimore forever. He

Mr. CALHOUN thought that allowing the claim, even would move to amend the bill by inserting a proviso that on this distinction, would go to establish the principle, the company should not charge the Post Office Departthat the claims of invalid pensioners should be carried ment, or its mail contractor, tolls for the passage on the back to the time of receiving the wound; and this, he road of any cars or other vehicles in which they may said, would be contrary to the whole usage of the Gov- transport the mail. ernment, and would establish a dangerous precedent. Mr. CHAMBERS complained that the company had

Mr. POINDEXTER, for the reason assigned by the lost a great part of the season wherein they might have Senator, (Mr. Calhoun,) would prefer that a round sum been at work on this lateral branch of the road if the bill should be named, as had been done by the Senator from had passed; and, if the bill should pass now, they would Delaware, [Mr. CLAYTON,) and he would be glad if one have to stop the works in other places, in order to get of the majority who voted on that proposition would this branch finished. He explained the difference bemove to reconsider it.

tween a railroad and a common high road, as to vehicles Mr. CLAY, if there was any instance of an officer be passing upon them. The high road was open to every ing supported eight years by his daughter, and then dy- body; whilst the railroad was a complete monopoly-no ing of lock-jaw, would like to be informed of it by the cars but those of the company being allowed to run upon Senator from South Carolina.

it. No one could expect that the Government or any one Mr. CALHOUN, if it were not for establishing a pre- else could make use of the road, except the company. cedent, would vote for the bill.

After some remarks from Mr. HENDRICKS, he with. Mr. CLAY would vote for five hundred such, if they drew his amendment, until the amendment moved by Mr. were lock.jaw cases.

CHAMBERS had been disposed of. Mr. CALHOUN regarded the precedent as resting, not On motion of Mr. BENTON, on the lock.jaw, but on the circumstance of carrying The Senate adjourned. back an invalid pension to the time of receiving the wound.

MONDAY, MAY 19. Mr. MA GUM also thought the precedent would be dargerous; and for the purpose of giving more time to

BALTIMORE AND WASHINGTON RAILROAD. consider it, he moved to lay the subject on the table, but After disposing of the usual morning businesswithdrew the motion at the request of

The act relative to the construction of a lateral branch Mr. MOORE, who moved to amend the bill, by insert-of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad in the District of Coing the round sum of 800 dollars instead of the 2,000 dol- lumbia, with the amendment offered by Mr. CHAMBERS, lars, proposed by Mr. CLAYTOR; but withdrew the motion authorizing the Government to terminate its contract for at the suggestion of Mr. Calhoun, who regarded such a carrying the mail whenever necessary, was then taken up precedent as still more dangerous, because it was more for consideration. indefinite,

Mr. GRUNDY stated it as his opinion, that if this bill Mr. POINDEXTER moved to reconsider the vote on passed, the Government would be obliged to carry the the amendment offered by Mr. Clayton, to insert 2,000 mail for twenty years by this, and no other route. dollars; but the motion to reconsider was not carried. Mr. CHAMBERS begged permission to save the honor

The bill was then ordered to be engrossed, and read a able Senator from Tennessee some trouble. Mr. C. third time, by the following vote:

stated that he would withdraw his original amendment, YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Chambers, Clay, Clayton, Fre- and introduce another, by which the Baltimore and Ohio linghuysen, Hendricks, Kent, Knight, Linn, Moore, Nau- Railroad Company should be compelled to carry the mail dain, Poindexter, Porter, Prentiss, Robbins, Silsbee, for twenty years, free of all expense to the Government. Smith, Sprague, Swift, Tipton, Tomlinson, White, Wil-Mr. C. then offered an amendment to that effect. kins.-23.

Mr. GRUNDY said this was certainly gaining considerNAYS.-Messrs. Benton, Bibb, Brown, Calhoun, For- ably, and if this matter could be placed on the footing of syth, Grundy, Hill, Kane, King of Alabama, King of a fair contract, then Congress might deliberate upon it. Georgia, Mangum, Morris, Preston, Robinson, Shepley, He wished, however, to call the attention of the Senate Tallmadge, Tyler, Wright.-18.

to a principle in the bill, which he thought likely to proOn motion of Mr. WILKINS, it was ordered, that when duce serious difficulties. At the last session - principle the Senate adjourn, it adjourn to meet on Monday. had been laid down from which he did not wish to depart, BALTIMORE AND WASHINGTON RAILROAD.

viz. that this Government would collect only as much

money in taxes as was absolutely necessary for its support. Mr. CHAMBERS moved that the Senate proceed to This principle seemed to be agreed to by all, at the time the consideration of the bill to aid in the construction of of the compromise bill. Now, if they opened avenues to a lateral railroad between Washington and Baltimore; expenditure, they created a necessity for money; taxation which was taken up accordingly.

became indispensable, and could not be objected to by On the question whether the bill should pass

any one.

What was the situation of Congress with re. Mr. FORSYTH said he should like to liear it read. gard to this bill, before the amendment had been offered? The bill was then read.

it was proposed that they should give money to compaMr. CHAMBERS moved that the bill be amended by nies in ihe different States to make roads. inserting, at the end of the second section, a proviso that Mr. G. said, that this company was incorporated the Postmaster General might, at any time when he by the Legislature of Maryland, and the company owned thought proper, terminate the contract with the Railroad the whole stock, except what belonged to the State. Company, for transporting the mail, and transport it by Coining into this district with a part of the road, some other mode.

could not change the principle, and Congress might as Mr. HENDRICKS thought there was another provisol well give money to a company in Virginia, as to a com

Mar 19, 1834.]
Baltimore and Washington Railroad.

(SENATE. pany in the District. The only mode in which Congress Columbia would be under the legislation of Congress, and could act, was to become a partner. In this case the not under the State of Maryland, further than that incormoney was not to be given to the District, but to a com- poration had connexion with other improvements conpany in Maryland, to which the State was a party; and if nected with it. He would decline the proposition offerthis were done, what was to hinder Congress from giving ed by the honorable Senator from Indiana, (Mr. Herthe public money to a company in New York? Mr. G. pricks,) and contended that the Government received a thought there was no difference. Besides, if Congress fair equivalent, besides the improvement of the country appropriated money for this road, what forbade them to and the facility of transporting the

mail. This equivalent give money to any corporation, for a road pointing to the was to be received in the shape of services to be renderseat of Government? 'Mr. G. therefore thought that in ed, which the United States could not obtain for the same principle they were opening a dangerous outlet for the money by any other mode. Money had been given to public money; it was better to return to the old idea of a canals and other improvements, and the Senate was deal. partnership, than to adopt a principle by which they ing more hardly with this company than any other. He might give money to a company in any part of the United hoped the Senate would, in its liberality, contribute to States. Mr. G. would not go into the question of consti- convert this into a useful improvement, for the use of in. tutional power, on this subject; but he thought it strange dividuals and the Government, and give the sum proif Congress might give away the money of the United posed. States for any purpose they pleased. There were pecu- Mr. GRUNDY said, Congress did possess jurisdiction liar cases in which it had been given away, such as that over the ten miles square, and had expended money on of the fire in Alexandria, and the more recent case of the Pennsylvania avenue. Had it not a right to do so? For what exiled Poles. Mr. G. hoped these benevolent acts would purpose was that money expended? That every citizen not be blamed; but he could not vote for them, because in the United States and every individual in the country he could not see that they had authority to give away the might have the benefit of it. But what was the case with public money. Mr. G. therefore could not vote for this the railroad? The money was given to a set of individubill in any shape; but if the Government were to receive als, exclusive of all others, and for their exclusive benean equivalent for their money, he was ready to see the fit. It was not for the benefit of the United States, or of object promoted. He wished the appropriation might be the citizens of the United States, but for individuals in reduced, so as to be an equivalent for the transportation the State of Maryland or elsewhere. They were to be enof the mails.

titled to the money, and the use of it afterwards. The Mr. HENDRICKS hoped the amendment would be money given to the Canal Company made the Government adopted; but in that case he should move further to amend stockholders in the undertaking, and it expected a divithe bill by striking out “twenty years," and inserting dend when profit should arise. It was not giving the “forever bereafter.” Mr. H. thought the company could money for the exclusive use of any corporation, because well afford to carry the mail in perpetuam for the interest the people of the United States would have the benefit of the money.

of it. Mr. CHAMBERS would not object to the amendment Mr. CHAMBERS said he did not allude to the Chesaproposed, if it should be acceptable; but he wished the peake and Ohio canal. amendment first proposed might be adopted, and then the Mr. GRUNDY said that made a difference. But there other two might be taken up separately,

was a prospect of a return. In the act of 1833, the RailThe first amendment was then agreed to.

road Company was to pay, for the use of the State of MaryMr. HENDRICKS, at the suggestion of Mr. Forseta, land, one-fifth of the amount to be received for the moved to amend the bill, by a requisition that the mail transportation of passengers, which was to be paid into the should be carried free of expense as long as the company treasury of Maryland. What for? Because Maryland should exist. Mr. H. supported this amendment by read. contributed five hundred thousand dollars to the stock. ing an extract from a letter of the chief engineer, con- Then Maryland put into the stock five hundred thousand taining an estimate of the expenses of conveyance on the dollars, and for this it was to receive one-fifth of all that road, from which Mr. H. drew the conclusion that the should be received for the carriage of passengers; while mail could be carried at an annual expense of $20,000, or Government, for three hundred and fifty thousand dolless, while the interest on the appropriation would be lars, was to receive nothing but the transportation of the $21,000. Mr. H. concluded by contending that some se- mail, which would come to an inconsiderable sum. He curity ought to be given against monopoly.

did not wish to go into an examination of the profit and Mr. CHAMBERS argued, that in twenty years the Gov. loss attendant upon this matter, but there was a principle ernment would receive as an equivalent for the money at the bottom of it which he wished the Senate to decide proposed, the value of one million and fifty odd thousand upon. Would they give the public money away to comdollars. Appropriations have been made to the Western panies? If they gave $350,000 to this company, and improvements day by day, without recompense; but now $350,000 to another, what would become of all their Congress must not make an appropriation without show- boasted economy? What would become of all their plans ing that we are to receive seven and sixpence for a dol- of restricted expenditure which they had held out to the lar. No company would be willing to enter into an agree people of the United States. They would be gone, and ment without knowing the exteni of the engagement. It Congress would bear talk of nothing but waste, prodigalwas very well to carry the mail for a limited time, but no ity, and profligate expenditure. He objected to the company would agree to carry it forever. He was equal principle of giving money to companies out of the public ly surprised at the remarks which had fallen from the ireasury, because, if this were done in one case, it must honorable Senator from Tennessee. The constitution be done in another. said that Congress had a right to exercise legislation in all Mr. HENDRICKS said a few words in reply to the cases in the District of Columbia. He instanced the grant Senator from Maryland, [Mr. CHAMBERS,) which were inmade to the Chesapeake' and Ohio canal, which had its distinctly heard. We understood him as stating that no termination in Georgetown, and asked what was the dif- appropriations had been made for internal improvements ference between the improvement of Pennsylvania ave- in the West, without an adequate and more than an adenue and any other improvements in the District. But the quate equivalent having been received by Government. gentleman considered this as a Maryland incorporation, and

Mr. PRESTON said it became the Senate to look atsubject to the Legislature of Maryland. Fie contended tentively into the subject of appropriations; it was pecuthat so much of the road as should be in the District of liarly proper that they should do so after the opinions they

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