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APRIL 22, 1834.)

New Jersey Memorials.

(SENATE.

resentative in the other House, and most of his col- truth, complain of the general interruption of commerce leagues, there will be no abandonment of the present ob- and business, induced by unlawful and unconstitutional ject and present purpose, till their prosperity be restored, executive interference. They trace all the difficulties till the credit of the nation be restored, and till the consti- and embarrassments of the country to this cause. And tution of the country be restored also. Let them be of who could be so blind as not to expect just such consegood cheer. Permanent distress, from mere misgovern- quences? Sir, they complain of the hostile proceedings mnent, can hardly be the lot of an intelligent people. of the administration towards the United States Bank, as

The memorial was then referred to the Committee on uncalled for by any part of its conduct, as a measure vinFinance, and ordered to be printed.

dictive in appearance, altogether devoid of sound policy, NEW JERSEY MEMORIALS.

and destructive of the public welfare.

Thus far, then, sir, bare my colleague and myself been Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN said he had been requested sustained in our reference to the people of New Jersey. to present to the Senate a certified copy of certain reso- We have put the matter fairly and fearlessly before them. lutions and a memorial adopted by the friends of the We have no anxieties about the issue. I believe, sir, present administration, at a county meeting, held at Som- that an inquisition is going forward, that will make the erville, in the county of Somerset, by citizens of that very pillars of power tremble. I make, sir, the usual mocounty, in New Jersey.

tion, that the memorials and resolutions be read and printI take pleasure, said Mr. F., in assuring the Senate of ed, and referred to the Committee on Finance. the respectability of the gentlemen who conducted this Mr. SOUTHARD remarked: On two of the memomeeting, and that their opinions are entitled to receive rials just read to the Senate, I do not feel disposed to from me and this body, respectful consideration. It is make a single remark; my colleague has correctly rep. with satisfaction, and some consolation, too, that I find resented them and the memorialists. But, as I also rethese proceedings conveyed in decorous and dignified ceived a copy of the proceedings and memorial signed language, and wanting altogether the harsh and occasion by the secretary of one of the meetings, with a request al personal severity that has at some times assailed my that I would present them to the Senate, I feel it to be bonorable colleague and myself. While I say this, how.my duty to add something in relation to them. I mean erer, sir, I am constrained to dissent from the opinions those which come from the county of Somerset, and of these, my respectable constituents. I especially advert which are so strongly opposed to the views which I ento the fifth resolution, wherein, speaking of the late in- tertain on the great questions which have agitated the structions of the Legislature, they resolve in the following | nation. terms: “ We believe they expressed the sentiments of the That county is also my birth-place, and dear to me State- e know they gave the voice of the county of Som- as the memory of youth and the sympathies of blood and erset." Mr. President, this matter of belief and knowl. kindred can make it. And, first, I beg to assure the Senedge is a voluntary exercise-it cannot be forcedl; and as ate, that the memorialists are persons of high respectathis meeting has not instructed me to believe with them, bility-worthy not only of my own respect, but that of I shall certainly continue to think according to my own the bodies to which they have addressed their memolights, and the conclusions of my own mind.

Trial. The meeting is said, in the paper, to have been Now I do not believe, either in the majority of the large; but on this point, I am not advised by them. State, and I certainly cannot know, and do not believe, Their numbers I have no means of ascertaining. I speak ibe alleged state of public sentiment in the county of Som-only of the characters of those few whom I know to have erset. This ancient, honored county, sustain the en- been present; and of others, whose presence I infer from croachments of arbitrary power! If I was to select a dis. their well-known political partialities. trict in the State, where the pure, pervading, uncompro- I can liave no dispute with the memorialists upon any mising whig principles of the Revolution prevailed, it political or party prejudices or opinions which they may would be the good old county of Somerset. Sir, it has entertain. Justly entitled to enjoy and express their been true to these principles from its earliest history. opinions and feelings, like other citizens, it is not my The first war-note that ever disturbed the tranquillity of duty to quarrel with, but to respect them, so far as may its valleys, was in that eventful hour when resistance to be in my power; but I ask from them the enjoyment arbitrary power was resolved. Yes, sir, it was against its of the same rights for myself. encroachments that our fathers buckled on their armor As I cannot concur with them in some of the facts on and the plains of Monmouth, Trenton, and Princeton, which they seem to rely, nor in some of the conclustill hold a language that bas lost none of its energy by sions which they have drawn, I beg to notice two or time, but will, when needs be, warm every patriot bosom three of them. I still entertain the hope, that even these into enthusiasm.

memorialits, when fuller views shall be taken of this Sir, the true issue was not yet formed at the date of subject, and the lights of experience shall have had time this meeting. The bank is certainly denounced for suf-to operate, will yet hesitate in their approbation of the ficient variety of charges and misconduct, in the resolu- conduct of the Executive, and will come to the relief of tions and memorial before us, but the great question of the constitution and laws. power, on the one hand, and the majesty and dominion of I concur with my colleague, that the true and most our laws on the other, was not then raised. But I rejoice important question has not been met by them as fully as to know that the people are now coming up to the case, I could desire. with the spirit and solemnity becoming enlightened free. They resolve, that the misconduct of the bank justimen, jealous of their liberties.

fied the Executive. But, if we admit that the bank has In proof of this, I beg leave to refer to the resolutions been guilty of misconduct_has been criminal-does it and memorial of a public meeting held at Princeton, New follow that the Executive has a right to punish it?-and Jersey, composed of many respectable citizens of that without trial? Does its criminality justify the President borough, and of the adjoining townships of Montgomery, in pronouncing sentence and executing judgment upon in Somerset, and West Windsor, in Middlesex counties. it? Has he any authority to do this, except in the forms The memorial is signed by more than two hundred citi- of law? Must not the accused be heard and tried and zens. I also offer a memorial of more than eleven hun- sentenced? Can the sheriff or other executive officer dred subscribers; farmers, mechanics, merchants, and cit-execute his own views against the violators of law? This izens of the county of Middlesex and city of New Bruns- is not my understanding of legalized liberty; nor my bewick. These respective memorials, with like justice and lief of the legal and moral principles of the county of

Vol. X.-90

SENATE.)

New Jersey Memorials.

[Arnil 22, 1814.

Somerset. If I should admit that the bank has been as proof, I regret that they have not furnished it to me, for criminal as is alleged, it does not seem to me to follow, my information and guidance. If, then, the bank has not that the President had a right, by way of punishment, extended its business beyond its means, or the wants of and on his own motion, to withdraw the deposites. This the community, where is the evidence that its extensions is, to my mind, the more clear, because the law-and were corrupt; or that it was governed, in making them, surely the President is not above the law-the law has by electioneering or other corrupt motives? As to its expressly provided, that if the bank violate its charter, curtailments, to be criminal they must be unnecessary; and it shall be tried by court and jury. And even the Presi- they must be compulsory, involuntary, as to its debtors. dent adınits, that if he had had time, he should have the meaning of the term implies, that the bank has called taken that course. Now, the least intelligent know, in, from its debtors, a larger amount of their accommothat this want of time, either in point of fact or of prin-dations and loans than the debtors were willing to pay, ciple, can furnish no apology. I could desire that this and larger than its own situation rendered necessary. A portion of my constituents would review this position voluntary payment of a note or bill, at maturity, and when which they have assumed.

the debtor does not wish to renew it, is no curtailment. They may be the more disposed to do this, perhaps, It is no contraction of the busines of the bank, of which when they learn that their political friends in the House any can properly complain. It is not an act which can of Representatives have not been able to bring them. be charged as an oppression or pressure upon any one. selves up to the affirmance of the Secretary's reasons for It can, by no possibility, create difficulty in the business the removal. The question, though direcily presented, of the community. It can, by no exercise of ordinary in various ways, has been thus far skilfully evaded. Now, fairness, be attributed to corrupt motive. It is the ordiif a majority believed that the reasons were sufficient, nary and daily operation of every bank. would they not have been willing to say so? Would Now I ask for the proof that the bank curtailed, withthey not have given a prompt and cheerful support to in the period to which the Secretary alluded, and to the Executive and the Secretary? Would they have sat which the memorialists refer as justifying the Secretary isfied themselves with declaring that the deposites ought I mean the period previous to the 1st of October last. 1 mot to be restored? This may, in the estimation of many, know that the Secretary affirms it, and I perceive that the be true, although they express strong condemnation memorialists believe it; but, if they reled on his assertion, of the removal. Silence, absence of approval, under all I am convinced that he has misled them. Before that pethe circumstances, must be regarded as condemnation.riod, (the 1st October,) and within the time to which he

These memorialists further express their opinion, that refers, and on which he rests his allegation, we are asthe unwarrantable course of the bank, in first extending sured by an official statement, taken from the records of and then curtailing discounts, to a very large amount; the bank, that there has been no curtajlment; and the evi. the attitude of hostility which it has assumed towards the dence is furnished in the clearest manner. Previous to local banks; and the concerted efforts which have been that date, no order to curtail or to draw in their means made, by its pensioned presses and hired retainers, to had been given-no act of that kind had been done; and, excite a general panic through the country, are the chief if this be so, how can the Secretary be justified in his causes of the present embarrassments, and that they are statements, and in inducing the memorialists and others purposely kept up, to distress the community, in the to believe the bank guilty in this respect? The public, hope thereby of coercing a renewal of the charter. who err in relation to facts, are not to be censured if they What is meant by these extensions and curtailments of have not the documents before them; the fault lies on the the bank? Those words have definite meanings. The person who leads them into error. It is very apparent extension of the business and accommodations of a bank, why the statement was made. The Secretary saw, by the to be improper, unwarrantable, criminal, or culpable, reports from the bank, that it had out, in discounts and must be beyond its means, and beyond the real and just accommodations, between three and four millions less in wants of the community, in the transaction of its fair and the fall than in the spring of 1833. He did not stop, he necessary business. Have the extensions of the bank did not take time to inquire bow this happened. It was a gone beyond either of these? Has any evidence been fact suited to his use-its explanation seems to have been afforded that it has exceeded its proper, active means regarded as of little value. If he had inquired, he would of discounting and accommodation? I do not ask what it have found the reason to be, that the debtors of the bank may have done some ten or fifteen years ago, but recent had paid notes and bills of exchange, &c., to that or nearly ly-at the time when the President and Secretary made that amount; paid them voluntarily, at maturity, and withthe charge or even now, when these memorialists affirm out compulsion; and, therefore, that there was no criminal their belief of it?-nor do I ask for allegations and strong curtailment. If he liad taken the time and trouble, he charges on this point. They are easily made, but are would have found the same fact also existing in previous not the best evidence of truth, nor the best guide for the years, within the same periods, and when there was no formation of opinions. Sir, no proof has been afforded pretence of misconduct in the curtailments of the bank. so far as I have seen; nonc can, as I believe, be afforded. it was the ordinary and common course of business at that The condition of the bank, for several years past, its season of the year. Thus, throwing aside fractions, there condition now, as known to all, disproves it. It has at no was, wbat is improperly called a curtailmenttime, within the last eight or ten years, gone beyond

In 1823, of $1,240,000 its means. It has been safe; it is so now. I speak from

1824,

2,120,000 the documents, and call for contradiction. Well, then,

1825,

131,600 has it gone beyond the wants of the community? Here,

1826,

3,000,000 again, I ask for proof, not allegation. When was it that

1827,

2,200,000 the real wants and interests of the community did not re

1828,

1,470,000 quire the full extent of the accommodations, of all kinds,

1829,

3,250,000 which the bank has afforded? Let the period be pointed

1830,

2,700,000 out, and the evidence given, of its improper conduct in this

1832,

4,722,000 respect. They who have competent knowledge of the

1833,

3,275,000 past history of the country, and of its commercial and l. Yet none of these, I believe, were compulsory curtaile other interests, will not hesitate to affirm, that in this re- ments. They arose from the course of commercial transgard, it is guiltless. Let those who accuse it, bring actions, and the payment of bills and notes at maturity, themselves to the proof; and, if my constituents have that whose drawers and endorsers did not require a renewal.

of

of

of

APRIL 22, 1834.)

New Jersey Memorials,

(SENATE.

If the Secretary had compared the year '33 with other lusion. A sense of real suffering has forced their comyears, especially with '26, '29, '32, he might have found plaints from them. And how have the pensioned presses an explanation of the fact, without discovering in it ground and the hired retainers and the Bank of the United States for condemning the bank, or for his hasty, ill-advised, excited the panic? Did they render it impossible for the illegal removal of the public money from that bank. banks to accommodate and relieve the men of busines?

You perceive then, sir, that I do not concur with this Did they make the moneyed men withdraw their money portion of my constituents, in believing that the exten- from circulation? Did they cause the fall of produce, sions and curtailments of the bank afford a justification for the depreciation of labor, the want of confidence in the the conduct of the Executive.

administration of the laws, the reluctance in some banks The memorialists are also of opinion that the bank has to accept the public money from hands who had no right assumed a hostile attitude towards the State banks. This to possess and control it, and the determination of others may be so, sir, but I have not been furnished with the to surrender what they had received? Did they make evidence which has satisfied this part of my constituents, the people believe all ihis against fact, truth, and the and should like to see a specification of the facts, with evidence of their senses? The memorialists must, if it times and places. We have, it is quite true, had such be their pleasure, retain their opinions on this point. I allegations from agents and partisans, which have been cannot yield my credulity to this notion. I have no be credited, but we have had no facts. When and where lief that the people of the United States are to be driven was this hostile attitude assumed? What has been done into a panic by pensioned presses and hired retainers, or by the bank to evince it? What the results? What com.by a bank, on a subject of actual business and observation plaints have the State banks made of this hostility, or of of the condition of things around them. They are slow its consequences! I believe they have made none. Ito anticipate evil-never alarmed in such matters by unbelieve that they generally entertain a very different opin- founded ierrors and warnings. They are more likely to ioo, and consider the action of the bank as just and liberal; feel the pressure, before they dread its inflictions. and they are quite as competent to guard themselves, to But when they see that power against law has violated see their own interests, and to protect them, as those who rights—when they find the most potent instrument in have kindly volunteered their guardianship. I want securing and preserving a sound state of the currency, proofs of this hostility. I wish evidence of complaints by crippled and paralyzed in its action, compelled to look the State banks, and of injuries received by them, before to its own safety and security rather than to the accomI condemn. Mere allegation is not sufficient for me, nor modation of the commerce and business and interests can I credit the assertion of any one, in or out of office, of the country—when they observe that, by an act of that the bank has been guilty on this point, unless he will power unauthorized and reckless, the means of numerfavor me with evidence on which his assertions are ground. ous banks are placed in a condition not to meet and aned. You will perceive, therefore, sir, that I do not swer the wants of the community - when they discover concur with the memorialists in this fact, and am quite that those who have money are induced to preserve it, willing to bring the difference between us to the test of by hoarding it up-when produce falls—when the price public documents--to the trial by evidence.

of labor diminishes-when improvements of all kinds in As to the “ pensioned presses and hired retainers" the country are arrested—the rich unwilling to venture who have, by concerted efforis, excited the panic through-on enterprise, and the poor deprived of employmentout the country, I must leave them to the belief of the then they are alarmed and remonstrate--they suffer and memorialists. I know not which or whom they mean. Is they complain—they feel that their rights and prosperity it so, that the bank has pensioned those presses who have have been assailed, and they denounce those who have defen:led it from the attack of the Executive? If so, it violated them. They labor under no panic--they see and has had full employment, and must have expended no feel clearly and sensibly, and, believe me, they will be small portion of its means. Several hundred presses, in heard, to the redress of their grievances, let partisang all parts of the nation, can be pensioned by no trifling characterize their feelings by what epithets they may sum; or have only a few been pensioned, and have all choose. These memorialists petition Congress that the the others been deluded into the support of the same Government money may not be restored to the Bank of views? If there be many of them, it is not very clever the United States. Now, sir, believing that the contract of in these memorialists thus to accuse their friends, who in- the Government with the bank was violated by the revestigated the concerns of the bank, of neglect in not moval of the public money, I think it ought to be restodiscovering these pensioned presses and publishing them red and without delay--that the faith and honor of the Govto the world. I believe they did not pretend to have dis- ernment, and its fidelity to its engagements, may be uncovered more than some two or three, or perhaps more, impeached. Believing, further, that the law was broken editors who had even borrowed money of this bank, as by' Executive misconduct, I think that the restoration others borrow it. These constituents of mine must be should take place, if for no other cause, that the majesty lieve on this point according to their own sense of jus of the law may be vindicated. It is, perhaps, to be retice. When they furnish me with satisfactory evidence, gretted that we could reach this vindication of the law, I will concur with them. But, sir, “ hired retainers" also and the restoration of the contract, only by condemning excited or helped on the panic. Here, again, I ask who the act of the Executive--the head of a party. Could are meant? 'One thing I am sure, they meant no impu- this have been avoided, sir, there would have been no tation of corruption upon my colleague, who has been difficulty in our way. How often have we heard it said, quite as free in his remarks upon the mischievous conse- that the act was wrong, incorrect, unwise—that it was illquences of the misconduct of the Executive as others. advised and to be regretted; but that it was assailed by If any assertion of this sort should be made against him an adverse party, and must be defended by the party. it by any one, these memorialists would be the very first to was the act of the leader, and must be supported as a denounce the slander. I hope they would do me equal party measure. I will not comment upon the morality, or justice.

patriotism, or love of law, of such a position; nor quesBut what is meant by the panic? Does a consterna- tion the right of any one either to act upon or to defend tion exist which is without cause? Is the fear of the the measure on such a ground. Nor do I know that these country without reason? Has all that we have heard of memorialists are at all influenced by such considerations; distress and suffering been fancy and imagination? Sir, but we all know that there are some, though not in the the thousands of memoriaists who have sent their peti- Senate, yet elsewhere, who do act upon that principle. tions and remonstrances to us, have not acted under de But there are other reasons wliy I cannot concur with

SENATE.]

New Jersey Memorials.-President's Protest.

(April 22, 1834.

the views of the memorialists on this point. The prom- suspended payment. In one of them there is said to ised benefits of the removal of the public money have have been some twenty or thirty thousand dollars of one failed, and that money is every hour in jeopardy. of the most sacred funds under the care of the Govern

We are promised as good a currency, or better, by ment. It is high time for us to call for specific informathe State banks. Has the promise been kept? Has any tion froin the Executive as to the present condition of the approach been made towards it? Every man of ordinary banks in which the money of the people is placed, and intelligence and knowledge of our financial history, ought to the present state of the circulating medium, and the to have known better, and daily experience shows us relief wbich these banks afford to the commerce and the folly of our financiers on this point. A little longer business of the community. That money is not as safe and our available funds in the Treasury—in other words, nor useful as our interests require. the notes of insolvent banks in our possession--will be It will be perceived, Mr. President, that I do not agree swelled far beyond the amount which has been annually with these memorialists in fact or opinion. Other differreported. We were also promised, that the possession ences than those to which I have alluded might be reof the Government money would enable the selected ferred to--but I should weary the Senate. Time must banks to extend their accommodations, and relieve the decide between us. I have deemed these remarks due pressure on the community, past, present, and anticipa- to them, to myself, to the cause which separates us in ied, from the action of the Bank of the United States. opinion. I yet hope, sir, that we shall meet. They will Although no such pressure was produced by it, yet if it yet find, I think, that they have been drawn into error, were, has the promise been kept? Has the pressure by a generous confidence in those who are not worthy of been relieved? Have the selected banks extended their their trust--that the law has been broken--that a solemn accommodations? Is the money even safe which is in contract has been unnecessarily violated--that tle public their possession, unless something be done to arrest the Treasury has been illegally controlled by the Executive progress of the evil? Look at the situation and operations will--that, in pursuit of cherished but mistaken views, of these banks from December to February. Take two the Executive has brought deep calamity on the country-of them as examples of the rest. Within that period, that, instead of sustaining the just principles of our free one diminished its circulation 74,000 dollars, its discounts, institutions, to which they are so earnestly devoted, he &c. 424,000 dollars. Yet in December il had 1,177,066 has acted in disregard of their solemn requirements and dollars, and in February 1,345,000 dollars of the public sanctions. money; and, while it decreased its circulation and its dis Mr. BENTON. Will the Senator from New Jersey counts to the extent mentioned, it increased the public inform us to what fund and what bank he alluded? deposites more than 150,000 dollars. Another, in the Mr. SOUTHARD. To the navy pension fund, and same short period, diminished its circulation 75,000 dol- the Bank of the Metropolis, in the stock of which, it is lars; its discounts, &c. 199,000, while the deposites re- said, that a part of that fund had been invested. mained within less than 1,000 dollars the same.

And so

Mr. BENTON. Will the Senator from New Jersey it has been with others. While amidst all the assaults up- further inform us when, and by whom, the money was on the Bank of the United States, and all the difficulties placed there? which it has had to encounter from Executive vengeance, Mr. SOUTIIARD. I cannot answer. I do not know. it has, in proportion to its capital, its circulation, and its very probably it was some six or seven years ago, during discounts and accommodations, diminished much less. the administration of Mr. Adams, and by myself, as act. While they were favored with the possession of the pub- ing commissioner. But if it be so, the investment at that lic money, and it was persecuted, they have afforded less time was safe and profitable. The bank itself was then relief to the pressure upon the community than it has safe, and has so continued, affording proper interest until done in proportion to their means and their previous the conduct of the Executive hazarded the safety of all business. They are not to be censured for this--they the local banks. The loss is to be attributed, not to the have probably done all that was in their power--and are investment long since made, if it was so made, but to the probably blameless. But what shall we say of those who recent misfortune of the bank, and to the neglect in not produced this state of things? Who promised relief by removing the fund when danger approached. ihem, when it should have been foreseen that they could The memorials were then referred, as moved. not possibly afford it? Who have misled the country by such hopes? Shall we attribute it to ignorance, or to a

PRESIDENT'S PROTEST, reckless disregard of consequences in the pursuit of per The Senate then resumed the consideration of Mr. sonal revenge?

Forseth's motion to amend Mr. PoinDEXTEN's resoluThere is another circumstance to which I would direct tions assigning the reasons why the President's protest the attention of the Senate, and, if I could, that of this should not be received, by reciting the protest itself in portion of the people of New Jersey. It is, the immense the first resolution. disparity between the public money in these banks and Mr. CALHOUN having withdrawn his appeal from the specie in their vaults. I take the same banks again the decision of the Chairas specimens—some others are, I believe, in a different Mr. POINDEXTER submitted a general proposition situation. In December, one of these banks had $1,177,000 in writing, as a point of order, designed to reach this parof our funds, and $380,000 of specie. In February, our ticular case. funds there had increased to $1,345,000, and the specie The CHAIR (Mr. King, of Alabama, presiding) said, diminished $109,000—and this in two months. The other that whether he decided for or against the proposition, in December, had $553,907 of public money, and less it would not affect Mr. Forsytu's right to propose an than $82,000 of specie. In February, it had $553,096 amendment to either of the resolutions. and $28,612 less of specie. Whether the same process Mr. POINDEXTER said he designed his resolutions as has gone on since, I do not know; but if it have, I ask it one entire motion. The three first resolutions were the our money be safe there!--more safe than in the Bank basis of the fourth; and they stated the reasons for coming of the United States, from which it was taken? Sir, the to the fourth; they all went to but one point, which was, public treasure has been put in jeopardy--is now in dan- that the paper be not received. If the principle were ger, not from the acts of its constitutional guardians, the established, which would be the consequence of receirlegislature, but from the illegal violence of the Execu- ing the motion, it would enable any member to offer any tive. We may lose it. The banks, we see, are break- paper or memorial, however offensive in its terms, and ing all around us. One-half of those in this District havelinus by saying, " in the words following,” (then insert

APRIL 23, 1834.)
President's Protest. New Jersey Memorials.

[SENATE. ing the paper,) impair the dignity of the Senate. All stitutional rights and privileges, we would not receive it. amendments, whether passed or rejected, should leave He was in favor of treating the paper with the utmost the original proposition where it stood before they were respect; and would, at any time, receive from the Presioffered.

dent any paper which he was ready to send for ultimate Mr. CLAY said the gentleman from Georgia offered action by the Senate. But he declined receiving any prothe original paper itself as part of his proposition, and test upon any question which led to no practical results. then the question arose whether he could so use it, which Mr. FORSYTH said, if he understood the point of being decided in the affirmative, the gentleman from the objection, it was, that the effect of his motion South Carolina appealed from the decision of the Chair. would be to place the messages on the Journal, and That appeal he had since withdrawn, in order that the honorable gentlemen said that it was out of order, he. preliminary question, whether the amendment of the cause it would defeat the object of the Senate. How gentleman from Georgia was in order, might come up. could the Senate decide the question of order till they

Mr. WEBSTER was afraid there might be some mis- had decided the question which was now raised? The apprehension on the subject, which he was desirous should motion could not go on the Journals till the ayes and be avoided. There were two objections now made-noes were ordered. Honorable gentlemen were in fathe first was, that the motion of the gentleman from vor of using the rules of order for common sense purGeorgia was not in writing. The other was, that a prop- poses, but their mode of using them, was by the maosition being made to exclude the President's message, jority, to defeat the rights of a mino Here the Senate this motion was made with a design to avoid that exclu- had received a message from the President-it had been sion. He was anxious to get at the main question of read and had been the subject of a three days' discussion, order, whether the motion itself thus to amend, was in and propositions had been made as to the character of the order.

paper, and yet honorable gentlemen had not received it. Mr. CHAMBERS thought the true question was, whe. We had got it, and how could we unget it. Mr. F. did not ther a proposition could be made which would defeat the know how you could make the President receive it, if it original proposition. If this could obtain, 47 Senators were your good pleasure to send it back to him again, and might gravely determine that a paper should not be he should deny it. The paper was here and it must be conplaced on the Journal, and the very proceeding in which sidered. Each resolution founded upon it was distinct in this conclusion was endeavoured to be arrived at, indi itself, and you could make a proposition to alter, amend, or cated that it was attained, in defiance of their will, by negative any or all of them, and the Senate might still the instrumentality of the other 48th Senator alone. 11 do what they choose with the message, if his amendment could not be; such a paper, from the very nature of the went on the Journal. Gentlemen professed great rebusiness in which the Senate was engaged, must be spect for the President. He must be answered, but the excluded.

message must not be spread on the Journal. We had Mr. POINDEXTER then withdrew his written prop- been told that nothing was so baneful in the eyes of powosition.

er as simple truth, and Mr. F. thought the maxim appliMr. WRIGHT said he felt himself quite unskilled in ed as well to legislative majorities as to executive power. points of order, but the question seemed to him a plain Mr. F. sail his object was to incorporate the paper with one. When the communication came from the President, the resolutions, in order that its character might be seen we had the motion which was now embraced in four sep- with reference to the resolutions. He contended that arate forms, that the paper be not received. These res the motion was perfectly in order until one-fifth of the olutions were an expression upon the character and con- Senators present had decided that the yeas and nays tents of the paper itself, and upon the sentiments and should be taken. As an objection had been made to his principles contained in it; and should we be required to offer of the original paper as his amendment, he now record our votes without recording our reasons also for withdrew that, and sent to the Chair a copy of that pathose votes? How could any man hereafter determine per, and asked the yeas and nays on the question of the correctness of our judgment upon the paper, without order. having the paper itself? Why should we go on and make Mr. BLACK then read the views which he took of the an expression of our sentiments, and then say that the question, and came to the result, that a Senator might paper should not come before us? It must either be con. offer any amendment he chose, but it was competent sidered or not, and was it not proper, and also the right for the Senate to make what disposition of it they pleased. of any Senator to have the paper spread on the Journal

Mr. CALHOUN and Mr. BIBB contended that onealong with the judgment, as evidence of the conclusion fifth of the Senate could not be permitted to control the which was come to? Ought not the Journal to carry majority, and thus effect an object indirectly, which the along with it the evidence of the vote of every Senator?' majority were opposed to.

Mr. CLAY replied, that the President had sent this pa The CHAIR then decided that the motion of Mr. Fore per here, for the sole purpose of having it recorded on Setu was in order: whereupon our Journals. It was not designed for any legislative or Mr. POINDEXTER appealed from the decision, but ultimate action; and, therefore, the only question was, before the question was taken, whether it could be received or not. An amendment was The Senate adjourned. then offered, which went to incorporate in itself every word of the document, and thus to effect the very ob

WEDNESDAY, April 23. ject which the President wished, which the Senate was debating on, and which they might not decide ac

NEW JERSEY MEMORIALS. cording to his wishes. Then the question was, whether Mr. SOUTHARD presented the proceedings and resothe motion was or was not in order; and common sense lutions of a meeting held in the city of Trenton, by the decided that it was not. It was possible to vote know- inhabitants of that city and the surrounding country. It ingly as to its contents, without its being on the Jour- was large in proportion to the population, and as intelliDals. How many bills were put on the Journals in hoc gent as could be collected in any portion of the State. perba? None. He denied that it was necessary to go They reviewed the conduct of the Executive in relation on the Journal, in order to consider and vote upon it. to the public Treasury, and expressed their condemnation It was already, to a certain extent, in the possession of of it with great decision and clearness. the Senate; and the resolutions ought to be passed, in He also offered the proceedings of a public meeting in order to let the President know why, in view of our con- the county of Warren, New Jersey, and a memorial sigh

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