Q. Were there ten millions ?-A. I have not the remotest idea. Q. Can you not give us an idea by an estimate of the amount represented by each? What was Mr. Pierce worth?-A. I am without the remotest idea.

Q. How were you, so late in the campaign, to rouse the enthusiasm by getting these gentlemen together?-A. We were constantly getting gentlemen together. I had some two thousand-I say two thousand, there was a very great number-who were constantly coming to see me at headquarters.

Q. You raised the enthusiasm by pitching into Butler. Was that the way?-A. We did the best we knew how in that line.

Q. When you closed your meeting, in what way were these gentlemen to work to bring about the results that you aimed at in your speech ?A. There are scores of ways in which a man may work in a campaign. He may make himself a missionary, and go from town to town, if he chooses to do so.

Q. What was suggested there as the way?-A. Nothing whatever; only to do what he could.

Q. According to his own understanding ?-A. As his own understanding would suggest to him the way in which he could be effective. Q. There was no definite understanding, then, that each man was to exercise a control over his employés ?—A. None whatever.

Q. There was nothing that forbid that in that meeting?-A. No, sir; I think not.

Q. Was anything said by the gentlemen there about the means to be used against Butler; anything about the workingmen's vote of the State-A. No, sir.

Q. Nothing of that kind?—A. We did not charge that that vote was being controlled, except as against us by him and Kearney or their followers in mobbing our meetings. But the campaign was an anomalous one. Mr. Kearney was here speaking every night, telling them, as he did on Boston Commons, to let the blood out of the rich and lecherous bondholders. We did not have a Republican meeting in the State or towns that was not disturbed.

Q. We do not care anything about Dennis Kearney or his sayings, but we want to know what this meeting was for.-A. The meeting was to rouse the enthusiasm. I am trying to tell you as best I can.

Q. (Referring to the so-called circular to manufacturers, asking their co-operation, a thorough canvass of those they employ, &c.) Do you know anything of the circular now shown you, which seems to have had some considerable circulation in Massachusetts ?-A. Yes, sir; I heard of it last fall.

Q. Did you ever see it before you heard of it?-A. No, sir.

Q. You did not write it nor direct it to be written, nor direct it to be printed-A. No, sir.

Q. Nor authorize any one to go to the city of New York for the purpose of having it printed to be circulated in Massachusetts ?-A. No, sir. It is what everybody could see at a glance, a stupid fabricationI do not know why the committee should ask a question about it—obviously a stupid fabrication.

Q. The clergyman's circular is not denied ; why this one should be denied we cannot understand.-A. The clergymen's circular was simply to send us names so that we could send documents to those names. That was all that was asked; we asked no co-operation, we only asked for names.

Q. When did you first hear of this circular?—A. I heard of it on the day after Butler alluded to it in one of his meetings.

Q. Where was that meeting held ?—A. I do not know; but it was in some hall in Boston, I think. We promptly contradicted it. I contradicted it over my signature the next day.

Q. Do you know of any meetings at which the custom-house officials or Federal officials in the State were convened for the purpose of using the Federal patronage to control the election?-A. There never was any such meeting.

Q. Was there any meeting in which the Federal patronage was controlled by means of a subscription of money from any such source?— A. I presume there was no distinctive subscription by Federal officials. I presume that they gave money, some of them.

Q. Do you know the amount?-A. I do not know the amount that the State central committee used.

Q. Can you give us the amount that your committee raised to defray the expenses of the campaign?-A. Yes, sir. It was published last fall. We published it ourselves. Mr. Crocker will give you the amount. It was something like $25,000.

Q. You cannot tell how much of that was received from the Federal officials?—A. No, but the amount was very small indeed. It must have been less than a thousand dollars.

Q. Did you receive anything from the campaign committee at Washington-A. No, sir.

Q. Nothing went into your campaign fund that you know of from that source?-A. Not that I know of. We could raise all the money that we needed. We had no difficulty about that.

Q. Did you raise any from New York?-A. No, sir.

Q. Did you send anybody there for the purpose of raising money?— A. No, sir.

Q. Did you try to?-A. No, sir.

Q. You had no meeting of bank presidents there on that subject?— A. No, sir.

Q. No one was authorized to go there and convene a meeting for that purpose-A. No, sir; it was never dreamed of, because, as I tell you, we had money enough.

Q. Do you know of any setting apart of the custom-house patronage for use in the election ?-A. No, sir. I do not believe there was any use made of the custom-house patronage.

Q. You know of no use of the patronage of the custom-house with reference to the election?-A. None whatever.

Q. Do you know of any of the Federal officials being detailed for use in the election ?-A. No, sir.

Q. Were any of the employés of the custom-house here or any of the other Federal officers permitted to go into the campaign to make speeches and influence votes ?-A. No, sir; that was one point that I made at this meeting at the Parker House. I stated to those gentlemen that under the civil service rules we could not even have the aid of the postmasters, and therefore it was all the more necessary that we should have their help.

Q. You know of no instances of the control of employés by employ ers in your own county ?-A. No, sir; nor anywhere else.

Q. Did you have any meeting of manufacturers or others at Worces ter ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. A private meeting?-A. Numerous meetings.

Q. A private meeting at which leading and influential gentlemen were

present?-A. We had several meetings of individuals during the campaign, and they were, in a sense, private meetings. They were private, as that one at the Parker House was; still we did not sit with closed doors. They were meetings for consultation.

Q. Was there a meeting of that character at Worcester at which you invited a number of private gentlemen to be present?-A. No, sir; not at which I invited any. I attended one at Colonel Washburne's office, at which he had invited them to be present.

Q. Who were at that meeting?-A. I can give you the names as far as I remember them, though Colonel Washburne is here and perhaps could give them better. Mr. Joseph H. Walker was there, Mr. George Crompton was there a small part of the time.

Q. Was Mr. Moen there?-A. I have the impression that Mr. Moen was not there.

Q. Was Mr. Vaill there?-A. I think that Mr. Vaill was present. I may be wrong about Mr. Moen, but my impression is that he was not there.

Q. What others who were present do you remember?-A. Mr. Har. rington.

Q. Any others?-A. There were some fifteen or twenty there in all. Q. Were any of the Whitings there?-A. No, sir; I should think not. I do not remember any other names. If you will suggest any names I may perhaps remember others.

Q. What was that meeting for?-A. Substantially the same that we had all our meetings for. There was a wonderful sameness at all our meetings. I made the same remarks there that I made at the Parker House. Q. What was about the date of that meeting ?-A. It was about the same time, I should think; late in October.

Q. Were any of the gentlemen who were present there employers of labor?-A. Yes, sir; quite a number of them.

Q. They were not all employers of labor?-A. I should think they were. Some of them did not employ but a few.

Q. Were there gentlemen there who employed quite a number of laborers?-A. Mr. J. H. Walker employs a number, though his establishment is not so large; and Mr. Crompton.

Q. What is the character of their manufactures?-A. Mr. Walker's, boots and shoes; and Mr. Crompton's, machinery.

Q. Was there no attempt to raise money there?—A. No, sir.

Q. Only enthusiasm ?-A. That was all.

Q. No special effort there to get anybody to vote against Butler ?— A. No, sir; only to get everybody to do the best they could to make votes against him.

Q. Do you know of any statement made after the election in regard to a man being compelled by his employer to vote against Mr. Butler?A. No, sir; only what I heard in Worcester.

Q. Was Mr. Vaill not charged with anything of that kind ?—A. He was charged at the time of the State convention with turning off a man because he was a Butler man. Mr. Vaill published a card in which he said that the man was turned off because he had drank up all his (Vaill's) alcohol. That was considered in Worcester as satisfactory.

Q. (By Mr. McDONALD.) When do you say that was?-A. It was just after the time of the State convention.

Q. (By Mr. BLAIR.) Was it straight alcohol?-A. Straight alcohol. The man afterwards went for Butler.

By Mr. McDONALD:

Q. State how it was that these gentlemen were called together to meet at the Parker House.-A. By a note from me. My private secretary wrote them a note, and signed my name to it.

Q. How many persons did you request to meet you there on the occasions when these parties were present?-A. I really could not tell you, I kept no list, but I should think from twenty-five to thirty.

Q. You did not get quite through with stating what you had said to them as the cause of your calling them there; what you call your "speech." I wish you would finish that up.-A. I had substantially got through. I said a good deal more than I have stated here, but I have stated it substantially.

Q. You told them why you had called them there?-A. Yes; I told them that the campaign was anomalous; that Butler was the most unscrupulous and dangerous demagogue of modern times; that he was arousing the people with the aid of Dennis Kearney.

Q. What did you give as the reason why you had called together these particular gentlemen ?-A. I told them I felt that we had a right to call upon citizens of all parties to aid to their utmost; to spend their time and give their money, if need be.

Q. To use their influence?-A. To use their influence.

Q. What did you say about their influence?-A. I said that everybody could help in a campaign of this kind.

Q. That every man had his influence, and knew better how he could use it than anybody else?-A. Yes.

Q. And you called on them to use whatever influence they had ?-A. That was substantially it.

Q. Was Mr. Mudge a Republican ?-A. Yes.

Q. You had no fears, when you called him there, that he would not go and vote himself?-A. Not a bit; not as to any of those gentle

men.

Q. You had no fears that they would not vote themselves, and that they would not vote against Butler?-A. Not a particle.

Q. Why were you calling them there?-A. Because I wanted to talk with them, to see if I could not arouse them to work in the campaign, the same as we held public meetings. I am not a public speaker. Officially, I wanted to reach every man that I could reach in some way.

Q. So that there was no danger of your not reaching him, whether he was called there or not?-A. I wanted to reach them.

Q. They were not exerting their influence enough?-A. I thought they wanted a little persuasion.

Q. You thought that they might use arguments and persuasion a little stronger than any they were using ?-A. I hoped they might.

Q. Was there any particular field of labor that you thought they were particularly adapted to ?-A. I did not indicate what I thought. Q. But what did you think on that subject?—A. I do not see how it can be material, but I would be happy to answer any question, if you judge it to be so.

Q. My question is whether there was any particular field of labor in which you thought any one of those men could exercise a special influence ?-A. It would take some time for me to give my whole philosophy of the campaign.

Q. We are here to learn, Mr. Thayer.-A. As chairman of the Republican State committee, I relied largely upon individual effort. We

tried to inform the people. Our appeal was, as we thought, to the consciences and intelligence of the people. We tried to reach everybody, in the first place, by public speeches; to arrange that every town should have public speeches.

Q. Were any one of those twenty-five men who were invited by you into this special conference public speakers ?-A. A few of them were. Mr. Marston is a fine speaker.

Q. He was the candidate for attorney general?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. He was invited in as an assistant to you, to indoctrinate these men?-A. No, sir; he was invited as the rest were.

Q. He was a candidate himself and consequently directly interested in the canvass?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Senator Hoar, was he taken there to give convincing advice?—A. Yes, he was taken there with the rest of them, or asked to go there.

Q. To give these gentlemen convincing advice, then, Mr. Marston went with you; not as one to whom you had sent an invitation, but as an assistant?-A. I say he was present there. He had been invited. He made an excellent speech. I wish that the committee could hear it to-day.

Q. As Mr. Marston and Mr. Hoar were the only speakers there were of these twenty-five gentlemen who were invited in, what did you expect the others to do?-A. I began to tell you of my philosophy.

Q. When you told them that every man had his influence and it was their duty in this emergency, when the country was about to be overrun by Dennis Kearney and ruined by Butler, and the State of Massachu setts forever disgraced--- A. That is what we thought.

Q. I cannot state it as eloquently as you do. Now, what did you expect these other men to do ?—A. I had begun to answer when you asked me what my theory of the campaign was. I said it was to reach every man by public speeches.

Q. These men were all right beforehand ?-A. In the second place, I intended to have documents distributed to every citizen of Massachusetts. I intended to reach every one. Then I intended that every person should be reached, if we could reach him, by personal solicitation. We had a man in each senatorial district

Q. If you please A. I am giving

Q. No, you are getting entirely outside of my inquiry.-A. There is a difference of opinion about that.

Q. I am satisfied that you are.-A. With all due respect, I state that I am not.

Q. I am trying to get at what you were trying to do with these twenty-five gentlemen who were known not to be public speakers, known to be thorough going Republicans, and whose votes you were certain of on the day of the election.

Mr. PLATT. The witness had got as far as to state that the purpose was to reach every man by personal solicitation. Was he not coming to the point?

Mr. McDONALD. I do not know.

The WITNESS. With that view, in addition to the public speeches, I sent out documents all over the State and

By Mr. McDONALD :

Q. Stop right there. I am confining this inquiry to this one meeting and have asked for your understanding of its purpose. When we get an understanding as to that, if it is necessary to branch out into this