Connecticut is called "taking the poor man's oath"?-A. No, sir-well, yes, it was in one sense, but it was the second hearing.

By Mr. McDONALD:

Q. But a poor debtor's oath would not discharge you on a charge of fraud?-A. No.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. Were these debts all contracted at or about the same time, that is, within a short time of each other?-A. No, sir; I think not.

Q. They were running over two or three months, perhaps?-A. Some of them were running probably over two years, but were secured by paper, by collateral.

Q. But the paper was not due until these proceedings took place?— A. No, sir.

Q. You were disposing of the property meanwhile, were you?—A. Yes, in business.

By Mr. McDonald :

Q. In the regular course of business?-A. Yes, sir; in the regular

course.

MICHAEL Kilduff sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Were you in the service of the United States during the war?-Answer. Yes, sir.

Q. In what regiment?-A. The Forty-eighth Massachusetts.
Q. How long?-A. I served twelve months.

Q. Were you employed before the fall election last year?—A. I was employed upon the extension of the new post-office here in Boston.

Q. What were your political sentiments in those days?-A. I was always a Democrat up to last fall, and last fall I was what we call "a Butler man." I voted for General Butler.

Q. State what conversation, if any, you had with the son of the superintendent there or anybody connected with the control of the work there, what happened to you, and when it was.-A. I went to work on the post-office in the summer of 1877. I worked along, part of the summer and part of the winter, until some time in December, when we were discharged because the work had stopped. I did not get back after that until the 1st of October, 1878, and I had hard work to get back then. I had letters of recommendation from two or three different Congressmen, but they did not seem to do me any good. When I did get back, I was only kept thirteen and a half days at work, when I was discharged.

Q. What conversation had you at that time with anybody in authority there?-A. I suppose there were people there in the interest of the ring, or whoever they might be; and every word that dropped from me or the like of me was carried to them, of course. I understood from some of the men that I was going to be discharged for my politi cal opinion, but I did not give any heed to it. I didn't know that people would look at a poor man of my kind in that light at all. I didn't think anything about it until this certain day, when certain parties came on the ground and asked two or three of us if we knew what our friend, General Butler, had done for us. I said "No." I was then told, "Well, you see, he has taken the work away from us; and, you see,

there is no use for anybody to work here who is a friend of General Butler." We were discharged that night.

Q. Who was it that said this?-A. Mr. Brown, the son of the superintendent.

Q. What had you said to him before he said that?-A. I had not said anything to him. I don't know that that excuse was directed to me any more than to any one else. There were two or three who were discharged in the same way that I was; a man named Daly, and one named Foley.

Q. Did you call upon the superintendent and architect afterwards in relation to this matter?-A. Yes. I brought a letter afterwards from Congressman Field, but it didn't seem to do me any good. The superintendent read it, handed it back to me, and this man who seemed to be running the concern, whether he was in authority or not I do not know (we understood that he was nothing more than a watchman), said to me, "How do you expect to get back when you said you were a Butler man?" I said no such thing. He went on and talked, saying, "Well, you didn't tell that party, but that party told another party, and that other party told him, and he told me." I said that I had never said so any way. I wanted to get back again, and I didn't want to commit myself any more than I could help. Mr. Brown told me, “I never care what a man's politics are; never care how he votes, or anything of the kind." He handed me back the letter.

Q. Did you get back?-A. No, sir; I never got back since.

Q. When was this?-A. A few days before the election last fall.

By Mr. BLAIR:

Q. Was it Mr. Brown who asked you how you expected to get back when you had been telling all around that you were for Butler?-A. No; that was Manley. We understood that he was nothing more than a day watchman; he seems to have all the authority there is there nowadays. He used the men in such a way that I supposed he must have more authority than he had, because when the days began to get short he cut us down to half an hour for dinner. I had been working on government works half a dozen different times, and I never knew anything less to be allowed than an hour for dinner. And then at dark we were hustled together and not let out.

Q. Was it understood there that you were pretty plain in the expres sion of your opinions as to whom you were for?-A. I used to explain once in a while when we would get talking. Some of the men would want to pick out of me how I was; I would say, "Of course, I am going to vote for General Butler." They would ask, "Do you belong to a Greenback club?" and I would answer, "Yes; I am one of the Greenback club.” I did not think that that would make any difference with a poor man like me, because I didn't think that would be carried to headquarters.

Q. What did the son of the superintendent tell you about Butler men not working there any more?-A. He said no more than this. He asked me if we had heard what General Butler had done for us, and then said that he had taken away the work and given it to a friend of his. Of course anybody working there who was for General Butler couldn't be expected to vote for him then. I tried afterwards to get back, but it did not do me any good; I could not get back.

Q. While you were working there, was time allowed you to vote at elections?-A. Yes, sir. In 1877 I was allowed to go home to vote. The architect and superintendent, Mr. Brown, came around through the men during the day and wanted to find what wards they voted in. Those

who lived handy he sent out during the day, and those living far away at noontime. He told them to come back as soon as they could to their work. That was well enough; but when I was going out at noontime he said to me, "Kilduff, you must be back here at two o'clock." I said, "Well, I couldn't be back at two o'clock, I think, and take my dinner; I could not be back much before three o'clock, and, if it don't make any difference, I would as lief stay out the afternoon." He said, "If you do, you will lose your time; if you think you can do something for the interest of the Republican party you can take the afternoon." But I came back and went to work.

Q. Did you vote?-A. I did.

Q. You never voted for the Republican party in your life?—A. No, sir. Q. It was this Manley, the watchman, who told you what you have stated, was it?—A. Yes, sir. I think he is a watchman; he seems to take a great deal of authority for a man employed in that line.

By Mr. PLATT:

Q. Do you belong in Boston ?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long had you worked on the post office building when you were discharged?-A. Thirteen and a half days by the day.

Q. For whom did you work?-A. Under the superintendent, Mr. Brown.

Q. Who hired you in 1878 ?—A. Mr. Brown hired me on the 1st day of October, and I went to work in the afternoon.

Q. What were you doing then?—A. I dwindled down from being a stone mason to nothing, to below a hod-carrier. He put me to cleaning old brick.

Q. You started as a stone mason, and wound up with cleaning old brick?-A. I could not get anything else to do. I was not left at that, but was then set to work on a derrick.

Q. What is your occupation?-A. I worked at stone-mason work since the war.

Q. What did you work at on the day you were discharged ?—A. I was working on a derrick.

Q. Did not the particular business, in which you were employed, go into the hands of a Mr. Tuttle, by contract, at that time?-A. No, sir; we had nothing to do with Tuttle's part of the work; we had nothing to do with the brick-work whatever. We were working for the stone masons then, hoisting stone up to the stone masons.

Q. What was your pay?—A. Only $1.50 a day. That is all we ever got there.

Q. When were you discharged?-A. About the 17th or 18th of Oc tober.

Q. Was that on the very day that Mr. Tuttle took the brick-work? — A. A Mr. Tuttle had his men, perhaps, three or four days at that time. Q. Others were discharged at the same time?-A. Others were discharged on, I think, either the 17th or 18th.

Q. Others were discharged at the same time that you were?—A. Yes; I know that two more were discharged on the same evening with me. Q. Did any of them get back to work?-A. No; none of them ever went back to work since.

Q. Was it not a common thing for laborers to be employed on that building, to work for a short time, and then to be discharged?—A. Certainly; it is always the case in such places.

Q. Did not Mr. Brown get Foley a place with Mr. Tuttle?-A. No; I think that Foley went off to Colorado, if I remember right.

Q. He did not work for Tuttle?-A. No; I guess not.

Q. Who discharged you?-A. This Manley discharged me.

Q. Who is Manley ?-A. This little watchman that they have there. He seems to be running the place altogether. He doesn't hire the men, but he will discharge them; that is, he will discharge anybody he don't like.

Q. Is he there yet?-A. I believe so.

Q. He discharged you?-A. He came up to me. I was the first man that he came to, and said, "Killduff, we don't want you here any longer." Q. Did he tell you why?-A. No.

Q. Who was it that told you you were discharged, because you were going to vote for Butler in the November election?-A. The man didn't tell me I was discharged. He asked me if I knew what our friend, General Butler, did for us. I said, "No." He said, "He has taken the work away from us, and got it for a friend of his." "Now," ," he said, "you see there is no use of anybody expecting to work here who is a friend of General Butler's."

66

Q. He told you and the others that General Butler had got the work away from them and given it to one Tuttle?-A. Yes.

Q. Who was the man who told you this?—A. This young Brown, the superintendent's son.

Q. How long was that before you were discharged?-A. I was discharged that same night.

Q. What he said to you was that General Butler had got the work away from you and had got it for some friend of their's?-A. That General Butler had got the work away from them, out of their hands, and given it to Tuttle, and therefore those there who were friends of General Butler could not expect to work there.

Q. Did you make an affidavit and swear to these facts?—A. Yes, sir. Q. How came you to do that?-A. I understood that parties there who were discharged went down to see certain parties here in Boston, and these parties told them to come and make an affidavit to these facts that they knew.

Q. Who wanted them to make an affidavit?-A. Those men who seemed to be interested, the men that made the affidavit themselves. They came to me and told me I should go down to a certain office in Boston and make an affidavit.

Q. Do you mean Foley and Daily?—A. No.

Q. Tell me who was the man who wanted you to go and make an affidavit-A. I don't remember now. I don't know that anybody told me so far as that was concerned, but I kind of thought it was right for me to do it myself.

Q. How did you find out that it was right for you to go to Mr. Hadley's office and make an affidavit ?-A. I don't know that I found out from anybody, in fact, except what I knew myself.

Q. Did you know Mr. Hadley, the justice of the peace?-A. No, 1 don't know that I did.

Q. How came you to go to Mr. Hadley's office?-A. I was brought in there.

Q. By whom?-A. By a man who wrote my affidavit.

Q. Who was that?-A. I don't know who the man was, in fact; a

lawyer in the office. He brought me down into Hadley's office.

Q. Where did that man find you ?—A. He found me in the office.

Q. How did you get to the office?-A. I walked down to Pemberton Square.

Q. Did you go alone?-A. I went alone.

Q. How came you to go to that office?-A. Because I wanted that General Butler should know all about this transaction.

Q. Did anybody tell you to go?-A. No; I meant that it was right only for General Butler to know all about this transaction.

Q. Did you go to General Butler's office?-A. I didn't see General Butler since.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Q. State the politics of the men who were discharged when you were. -A. We were all of the same politics. This Foley spoke up openly; the whole world knew he was a radical Butler man.

Q. Were any Republicans discharged on the same night?-A. No; no Republicans were ever discharged while I was there. There are men working there now who are not citizens of the United States at all.

Q. (By Mr. PLATT.) How old are you?-A. A little over sixty-two years.

Q. (By the CHAIRMAN.) Was it known on the works that you had been in the army?-A. O, certainly.

MICHAEL DAILEY sworn and examined.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. State whether you were in the service of the United States?— Answer. I was.

Q. In what regiment?-A. The Third Massachusetts Calvary. [Presenting a paper. That is my discharge.

Q. [Reading from the paper.] "Enrolled on the 2d of September, 1863, and hereby discharged from the service of the United States on the 9th day of June, 1865, at Washington; no objection to his being reenlisted is known to exist." Were you employed on the government works at the new post-office building?-A. I wrote to Congressman Morse, got a letter from him and got a job on the new post-office building. When I gave the letter to Mr. Brown, the superintendent, he told me to come in two weeks' time and I might get a job. I went there once in a while, and he said he did not want any hands. About the 1st of October, last year, he put me to work. I worked there until the last days of October, when we were discharged. We were talking about General Butler's campaign and this and that-we laboring men working together used to be talking of one thing or the other-and they asked me who I would vote for. I said I would vote for General Butler, and get as many votes for him as I could; that I and my two boys would vote for him.

Q. Did you state that yourself publicly?-A. I stated it as publicly as I could. The timekeeper there carried every word that I would utter and wouldn't lose a minute.

Q. Who was that man?-A. I forget his name.

Q. Was he a little man?-A. No; the timekeeper, I mean. There was a man there who used to be running all the time with every word you would speak out of your mouth.

Q. Who was that man?-A. He lives in South Boston; I don't know his name.

Q. He was watching what the men said?-A. Yes; every word that you would say. We were discharged about the 29th of October. I consider that there was no occasion for our being discharged; that I was willing to